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Subject: What is the best way for the US to secure her borders?
JohnBarry    9/20/2004 12:52:59 PM
What is the best way for the US to secure her borders? What kind of force would it take to make US borders reasonably secure? How much manpower? Would you have a massive increase in the Border Patrol or create new military units for the role? How would you equip and organize the force. Would it be a standard light infantry, airmobile, mechanized, even old horse cavalry?
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human7    This is just another case of Political Correctness vs Political Blindness.   9/26/2004 11:31:45 PM
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ex-98C    RE:This is just another case of Political Correctness vs Political Blindness.   9/26/2004 11:34:50 PM
What are you refering to?
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joe6pack    RE:From the mouth of a Federal Agent   9/26/2004 11:58:30 PM
"The border with Canada is not as problematic as the one with Mexico" However, it is the border where we have actually managed to catch terrorists trying to enter the country.. I'd say there is no sense in locking the front door if you are going to leave the back door open. There are just several lines of thought we can write off. 1) Using the military - The military (using every branch and every servicemember) is not remotely large enough to provide for the "fortress America" that is being brought up. I'd also argue that they have better things to do currently. 2) Land mines are politically impossible, morally dubious and potentially not all that effective against the type of people you really want to stop. So what does that leave us with? Maybe A big wall, similar to the Isreali plan? Personally, I don't like it at all but it may be more effective, at least in making vehichles go through check points. But the problems being mentioned as trouble at the border seem to be political and social not military. The social issue being drug use. I'd imagine that most of the gun wielding border runners are involved in the drug trade. I'd bet I great deal of our law enforcement troubles are based on drugs. Atempting to secure the borders really doesn't solve the issues of supply and demand here. Go after the suppliers and better yet punish the users. Or the other extreme, legalize the crap and and least drop the street market value to nothing and thus make certain that the crime of drug smuggling does not pay. The political side would be to work with Mexico and other South American countries so that people have incentive to stay in their country of origin. Cut the loopholes in our system that make it profitable to break the law. Make it easier on those that want to immigrate legally. From a Strategy Page / Military standpoint.. Illegal immigration does not rank near the top as a national security threat currently facing the United States. If we want to talk about securing our borders against a serious threat I'd think we should start talking about various "sensors" that could be used along our borders both land and sea capable of detecting radiation, chem / bio agents, explosives.. etc.
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wagner95696    RE:From the mouth of a Federal Agent   9/27/2004 2:23:38 AM
Declare an exclusionary 'free fire zone'. No seasons, no bag limits.
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wagner95696    RE:What is the best way for the US to secure her borders?   9/27/2004 2:27:33 AM
Land mine would not be "inhumane". Self inflicted wounds don't count. Once it has been announced that the area is mined any further consequences are the responsibility of the criminal 'invaders', not the US. If you post a beach with signs that say "No swimming. Shark attacks" and someone goes in anyway, who do you blame? The sign painter? The shark?
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joe6pack    RE:What is the best way for the US to secure her borders?   9/27/2004 11:17:53 AM
"Land mine would not be "inhumane". Self inflicted wounds don't count." So in your opinion, those people that were hopping the Berlin wall and being shot or blown up all got what was coming to them? Granted, to be a proper analogy, the Mexicans would have to be the ones to lay the minefield.. but I think the concept is the same. Look, I don't agree with illegal immigration. I personally wouldn't blink at a shoot on site order for drug smugglers. But I do have a problem with a country that exalts in its "freedom" mining its borders.. I'd say have some compasion for people that are so desperate they hazard crossing the US border in all sorts of unsafe ways now to find some under the table less than minimum wage job with no benefits. Being blown up in a search for a job at McDonalds.. just doesn't quite mesh with my picture of America.
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terrain21u    RE:What is the best way for the US to secure her borders?   9/27/2004 2:19:47 PM
I agree that mine fields won't solve the problem. You would still have people attempt to cross the border anyway. You'd still have to patrol and check the minefields to make sure no one cleared a path through. The "coyotes" would probably start trying to find people with experience with mines to help them clear a path or teach them how to do it themselves. I agree with, joe6pack, that it is the societal and political issues that need to be addressed if there is such a huge problem.
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scholar    A Mexican perspective   9/27/2004 2:26:29 PM
A had a chat with a Mexican who was irate about how Bush blew off Fox and his own election-time promises of working with Mexico to reform the whole immigration deal. The Mexican said that really the best thing would be to work withthe Mexicans to document the incoming folks, creating a sort of "guest worker" thing that would make the border traffic more transparent, therefor enabling the US to keep a better watch on any would be terrorists who might use the Mexican immigrant channels to get accross the border. At the very least, this guy was telling me of the need to work with the Mexican government. Seems reasonable.
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wagner95696    RE:A Mexican perspective   9/27/2004 3:20:34 PM
America accepts a million legal immigrants a year, more than all the other countries of the world combined. An additional 1.5 million illegals enter the country. If it were not for the flood of illegals we might even see our way free to increasing the rate of legal immigration. Illegals are not only displaying contempt for the US and its laws they are showing contempt for their fellow countrymen. By granting amnesty we are instituting a perverse sort of reverse social Darwinism. Those people who respecct the rule of law wait outside while whistfully awaiting their turn while those whose character and actions demonstrate a contempt for law flood the country. No wonder why the crime rates are so high among those people and their offspring. Children learn their moral standrads and acceptable behavior by emulating their elders. Contempt for the law begets more contempt for the law. There are millions of poor desperate people in the world, people as desperate or more so than the illegals. These law abiding people play by the rules and wait their turns. Mexicans just happen to be in a geographically favored position because it shares a border with the US. What about the poor of South American, Asia, Africa, or are the Mexicans just out to get theirs while the getting is good and screw the rest of the world? Mexican itself strongly defends its soputhern border to make sure none of the refugees from farther south manage to filter north to steal places from the Mexicans themselves at the border crossings. My wife is an immigrant. We have petitioned for three of her family but are told the waiting list is approximately 20 years long. Her family is just as poor as most of the illegal Mexicans crossing the border and they would be eager to do any of the work the Mexicans do. It is hard for me to feel sympathy for people who cut in at the head of the queue.
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wagner95696    RE:From the mouth of a Federal Agent   9/27/2004 3:26:58 PM
"But why?" Because kiss-ass politicians are afraid of antagonizing the potential hispanic electorate. Another conundrum. Why aren't people from Spain 'Hispanic'?
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