And its also assuming that the NK’s can operate when being strafed, bombed and Tomahawked left right and centre by the allied forces.

Where are you getting your facts from? 1 million South Koreans would die in the first day from artillery? This supposes first of all that the DPRK could achieve strategic and tactical surprise, quite doubtful. The South Korean intelligence apparatus was developed to prevent just such an eventuality. You can't mobilize a modern army in today's world of satellites, recon planes, cell phone tapping, etc. without others finding out. I'm pretty sure ROK and NSA are focusing a lot of attention on the North right now. Have you ever heard of counter-battery artillery fire? In Iraq every time the Iraqi's tried to fire artillery they immediately got gifted with 6 MLRS rockets. The highest priority missions in a new Korean war would be counter-battery. I suppose you're going to tell me about their tunnels again. What do you suppose the US and ROK have been doing for the past 40 years while DPRK was digging tunnels? Just sitting there wringing their hands and saying oh my? Or have they been figuring out how to deal with the problem? All 38,000 Americans wiped out in the initial barrage? You really don't understand how artillery works do you? Remember Iwo Jima? We literally leveled the island with 5", 8" and 16" naval guns. Over 90% of the Japanese defending the island survived and came out to play when the Marines landed. Artillery is not going to do what you claim. Remember Iraq and Vietnam? In both of those conflicts we dropped more tons of explosives that were dropped on Germany in WWII, doesn't seem to have "wiped out" the enemy there either. Their entire adult population is not reserves except on paper. Most of their population is slowly starving to death and will give up at the first sign of weakness in the government and military. Starving people don't fight except to get food. The US military is very aware of the tunnels in the North. If you know about them, then they are real and the US and ROK military knows too. I've known about them for years, it's part of the briefing one gets in Korea (I was TDY to ROK for 3 months in the late 80's). There is no way the Chinese are going to lend the DPRK Tu-16 bombers to carry nukes, if they even have more than one, which is unlikely. Plus, to the best of my knowledge the Tu-16 does not have the range to reach even Hawaii nor does China or DPRK have a strategic air-to-air refueling capability. No doubt the first couple days of such a war would be tough. A lot of artillery and heavily prepared positions. On the other hand, the US has learned a couple of lessons and doesn't fight the battle the way the enemy wants us to (i.e. Iraq in 1991 and 2003). And prepared defensive positions have been obsolete since the Germans bypassed the Maginot line and struck directly for the French center of gravity. Again, where are you getting your facts? 1 million Koreans are not going to die in the first artillery bombardment, 2nd ID is not going to be wiped out the first day, and DPRK is not going to launch a strategic nuclear strike on the west coast of North America. The war would last just as long as it takes for the starving North Korean Army to collapse. The one danger is that Kim might have one nuke and he might try to use it on the peninsula or against Japan. This is why ROK and US don't want to launch a pre-emptive war. ROK's strategy is to outwait Kim, sooner or later his country is going to collapse and then they will re-unify the country in a vacuum.

Interesting extract of an article related to this thread courtesy janes.com (http://www.janes.com/defence/land_forces/news/idr/idr031111_1_n.shtml): North Korea's long reach in profile By Joseph S Bermudez Jr "With tensions on the Korean Peninsula steadily increasing and the recent US decision to redeploy its troops within the Republic of Korea (ROK) south of Seoul, the subject of the vulnerability of Seoul and forward-deployed US troops to long-range artillery fire is frequently discussed as a key issue. Most of these discussions, however, are based upon faulty data or a poor understanding of the Korean People's Army's (KPA's) artillery capabilities and deployment. The KPA fields over 13,000 artillery and multiple rocket launcher (MRL) systems. Of this total approximately 1,100 are long-range 170mm self-propelled guns (SPGs) and 240mm MRLs. A key requirement for these systems was the capability of reaching Seoul from specialized hardened artillery sites (HARTS) constructed within 5-20km of the demilitarized zone (DMZ). HARTS are an integral component of the KPA's defensive system. Forward sites are located close enough to the DMZ to allow at least two-thirds of the artillery systems' range to fall within the ROK. Additional concentrations of HARTS, and other fortified fighting positions, are located throughout the KPA's first, second and third defensive lines as well as in vital rear areas. It has been estimated that there are over 500 HARTS within the II and IV Corps areas of responsibilities alone. The challenge of quickly neutralizing KPA HARTS is an underlying factor in US development of specialized deep-penetration munitions during the past decade. The ROK Air Force (ROKAF) and US Air Force (USAF) have developed a comprehensive plan to methodically target known HARTS with specialized penetration munitions. These operations will seek to either destroy the HARTS or block entrances to inhibit their use by long-range artillery systems. Of the KPA's approximately 1,100 long-range artillery systems, it is estimated that 710 are 170mm SPGs and 390 are 240mm MRLs. Of these, approximately 80% (876) are deployed south of a line running east-west through Pyongyang and Wonsan. The use of chemical warfare (CW) rounds - which the KPA possesses for all artillery systems greater than 107mm in diameter - would present a significant increase in the threat posed by these systems - especially to civilians. A single 240mm MRL battalion firing CW rounds could quickly saturate a large area with lethal concentrations of CW agents and then maintain that level of concentration for a prolonged period of time. The panic that would likely ensue among the civilian population would undoubtedly be momentous. Based upon known KPA tactics, operations, procedures and defector interviews an estimated 5-20% of the rounds initially available to DMZ corps level and 620th Artillery Corps artillery units are likely to be CW projectiles. As noted previously, the figures presented here represent the optimal KPA long-range artillery threat to Seoul alone. If all the KPA's artillery of 100mm or more, capable of firing across the entire DMZ, were calculated together they could achieve an initial rate of fire of approximately 300,000-500,000 rounds per hour."

Excellent points everyone and thanks for the article civystreet:) Hi Mikegolf> this civilian got info from the website Jeff Rense Program.com his radio show and there is a topic under the Koreas. It explains how NK would flatten Seoul etc and it is a military article derived from a US military admin. I also wonder about the actual crdedibility but it does explain the tunnel complex, vast stores of ammunition etc. I also have read articles over the years about the threat and how the TU-16's would be refuled by the PLA etc.. No doubt even if 1 missle landed the US icbm response would annhilate NK in a nanosecond! I was just implying how strong the NK threat is and the cost of such a scenario if it was played out. I also stick by the artillery barrage as wiping out everything within 20 miles from the 38th parallel, many articles I have read state 1 million lives lost.I dont recall where I read those..and Kim would resupply the artillery stores every year in those tunnels until he was attacked.

The Range of the "Badger" is about 4.000 miles (without refueling. But a mission like this would be suicide. US would shot down the H-6 (variant of TU16), just a few minutes after it departures NK. There are many better ways to nuke another country. ICBM is one way.: NK maybe has a few missiles, and the missiles nobody knows for sure if they are capable to reach america. There are some terrorists ways that would be usefull for north korea. like , put a nuke inside a container and send to US. or pass the nuke from the mexico border... etc... Using missile, when the engines starts to burn, the NORAD knows, and then, just one SUB could erase from the map NK. Now, to nuke Colorado, NORAD, just using a massive ICBM attack. And the MAD douctrine would be use. The NK's Nuclear warhead (if really exists) is just a blackmail tool to bargain something from US.

As I said before, it is useless for any tin-pot state to attempt to blackmail any of the Nuclear powers with a crude nuclear weapon. This is because any attempts to use it would instantly bring about their own demise, it’s a folly, it serves no purpose but to draw attention to yourself, from the main fighters of the axis of evil and severally drain your already weak economy of resources. As was also mentioned by myself, I doubt whether NK has a delivery vehicle suitable for strike against the US mainland. The TU-16 does have a range of 4,475 miles, but with a sub-sonic top speed of 652 mph, it would be easy pickings for any fighter inside the ROKAF or the USAF.

If NK was going to drop a crude “nuclear” bomb, then I would assume that they would use an Ilyushin IL-28 Beagle. But this would stand less chance as it has an even lower speed and range and it is for day flying only. Once again easy pickings for either air force unless the NK’s MiG-29’s can get off the ground and provide some support/cover for the IL-28.

To add to this, it has long been the US strategic policy that any attack on the US or US forces with weapons of mass destruction would be answered in kind. These are defined as nuclear, biological and chemical. IF North Korea used chemical weapons in a war with South Korea and the US our policy would be to answer in kind. Since we no longer have chemical weapons in our inventory, this only leaves one choice. In 1991, when Iraq still had mustard gas and sarin it was not used, although Iraq had shown no reluctance to use such weapons in the past. The conclusion to be drawn is that they believed we would answer them in kind. I really don't think N. Korea would use chemical weapons since it would essentially be signing their own death certificate. Even if we didn't retaliate with nuclear weapons we would certainly hunt the leaders of the DPRK down and bring them to trial for war crimes. As to China supporting DPRK that is very unlikely. Their largest trading partner is the US. All of the progress they have made economically and with industrial infrastructure would come to a screeching halt as soon as they did so with the loss of the US markets that would follow. China probably wishes the DPRK would just go away at this point, but since they won't they are trying to find some middle ground to keep the region stable. Don't expect PRC to be loaning DPRK any weapons of any sort. Russia is in the same boat. They really don't want to see a war occur on their border either. DPRK is very isolated from the major world powers, which is why they have moved closer to countries like Iran, Iraq (when Hussein was in power), etc. They need international currency and pretty much their only source for it is weapons sales. Those markets are slowly drying up on them. The most likely outcome to the Korean problem is a collapse of the DPRK and the ROK will step in and unify the two. If Kim launches a war as a last ditch attempt to stave off collapse the DPRK's military will inflict some damage, although not the 1 million casualties thrown around and then they will be soundly defeated. The problem is that most of the north is starving and even the army isn't immune. Right now all that most people in the DPRK care about is food. Their army is not going to last long in that situation. Especially as soon as word gets back to them that American and South Korean prisoners of war are eating better than the majority of the country is.

Good points, no arguments. Was only going with info gathered from other media articles. Yet I am convinced they would hit LA somehow.

It's quite possible, if N. Korea actually has a nuclear device, that they would hit the west coast of the US as a prelude to war. It could be done easily enough by loading the device on a freighter. Nuking a coastal city in the US wouldn't be that difficult, provided our intelligence services didn't get wind of it. Imagine what would happen to a country that did something like that. Look at what the US did to Japan for the attack on Pearl Harbor and the American reaction to Al-Qaeda's 9/11 attack. I think that would be a serious miscalculation on the part of Kim and the DPRK leadership. On the other hand, I don't think they really live in the real world. As Tom Clancy might put, it's like dealing with Klingons, the frame of reference is totally different.