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Subject: TOP 10 Navy's in the World
private pile    2/20/2004 11:35:18 AM
This is what i think in training power. and numbers of ship's 1:USA 2:GREAT BRITAIN 3:Japan 4:France (BUT ONLY BECUASE OF TRAINING) 5:Germany (More Ships and better tech than france but france's training better) 6:Russain 7:Aus (Only becuase of there training and tech but lack numbers) 8:China 9:Indea 10:isreal The last 2 i was not to sure about so i took a chance
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RM-Nod    RE:TOP 10 Navy's in the World   2/20/2004 11:40:59 AM
I disagree with Israel being on the list. They rely mainly on the US's fleet in the Med for there naval protection and there own navy is mainly a corvette force. Very good for what it is but not much chance of becoming a world force any time soon. Also does Germany have more ships than France?
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densoflex    RE:TOP 10 Navy's in the World   2/20/2004 11:41:19 AM
I'm somewhat surprised by this ranking. For the total tonnage, I think that immediately after the US would come Russia, then Japan, UK, France. I never heard of Germany having such a big fleet, so where did you take that Private Pile? No confusion with the Kaiser's fleet?
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private pile    RE:TOP 10 Navy's in the World   2/20/2004 11:52:39 AM
I did not rank it on tonage at all. on tech training and power. and your rite russian tonage is a lot bigger than britains. and no i wouldent but japan above UK or France. and if im sure i think britains ton's amount more to japans.
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RM-Nod    RE:TOP 10 Navy's in the World   2/20/2004 12:03:56 PM
Yes britain has a larger fleet than Japan in terms of tonnage. I'm sure RB will fill you in on the details.
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french stratege    RE:TOP 10 Navy's in the World   2/20/2004 12:22:34 PM
Alone tonnage means nothing on military capabilities. I didn't know that germany or Japan have SSN or aircraft A SSN have much efficiency than a destroyer or a SSK a aircraft carrier with awac and modern aircraft has efficiency of many destroyers. For global capabilities logistic ship number have to be balanced with naval bases around the world. Naval nuclear weapons count. The ranking is obvious 1: USA 2: Russia (sorry for the British but capable SSN number count) 3: British (not far away from russia due to much better disponibility and aircraft carriers) 4: France for SSN, ASW good, carrier, LST, nukes, awacs, reco .. 5: Japan 6: Italy 7: India? After some navies have good capabilities: Germany, Greece, Nederland, Turkey then Spain, Australia, South korea Chinese is difficult to rank.Low tech but building.
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Rule Britannia    RE:TOP 10 Navy's in the World   2/20/2004 1:14:33 PM
-Would you call this following report by the BBC the makings of a capable SSN fleet that would merit 2nd place obove the United Kingdom? Russia's nuclear-armed Northern Fleet is falling to pieces - quite literally - as scavengers plunder its ships of precious metal components. Hundreds of naval officers and civilian contractors have joined with criminal gangs in the illegal trade targeting anything containing a few dollars' worth of gold, silver or palladium. Millions of dollars are being made on smuggling the loot abroad, and naval equipment worth perhaps hundreds of millions is being ruined in the process, Russian TV reports. Such thefts cause enormous damage to the ships' military capability Vladimir Mulov, military prosecutor Warships and submarines, both decommissioned and in active service, often find themselves missing vital components, including telecommunication circuit boards, air regeneration filters and even torpedoes. "Expensive equipment is rendered inoperative as a result of these thefts," says Vladimir Mulov, the Northern Fleet's military prosecutor. "Parts, for example, are stolen from anti-aircraft systems. Such thefts cause enormous damage to the ships' military capability." Much of the trade takes place around the northern city of Murmansk, the homeport of the ill-fated submarine Kursk, which sank with the loss of all hands following an explosion during a naval exercise. The port has become the scene of fierce turf wars between rival gangs which has claimed more than 10 lives this year alone, says its police chief Viktor Pesterev. Face value One Russian Granit-class nuclear-powered submarine contains roughly a tonne of silver, more than 30 kg of pure gold and 20 kg of the precious metal palladium, experts say. Some of this potential treasure is dispersed in thousands of tiny circuit-board components throughout the ship. An air regeneration cartridge can be sold for 2,000 dollars A detailed diagram showing where such components can be found on a submarine, along with instructions on how best to dismantle them, was recently found during a police raid. But just one shoebox-sized air regeneration cartridge, for example, can yield 139 grams of palladium, worth over 2,000 dollars on the black market, the TV says. No wonder places like Murmansk are littered with booths of scrap metal dealers, and local papers are filled with advertisements offering a good price for precious metal - no questions asked. Officers and thieves Shipyards and naval bases have employed guards with metal detectors in an effort to keep the ships' components where they belong. The Northern Fleet is Russia's biggest But that does not always help. One recent victim is the nuclear submarine Kazan, which lost her air regeneration filters. They were stolen by two officers who were supposed to guard them. Still on trial for a similar offence is the chief of a naval garrison and a naval captain. Of the 147 people investigated for the theft of precious metals from the military last year, more than half were officers. A Russian navy captain has launched an outspoken attack on the equipment used to tow a nuclear submarine which sank in the Barents Sea in August, killing nine people. Captain Sergei Zhemchuzhnov, who was in charge of the operation, has been charged over the failed mission, but he told a Russian newspaper the operation was blighted by ancient equipment. Pontoons used to keep the mothballed K-159submarine afloat were made in the 1940s, were not airtight, and were not designed for towing, he told Kommersant newspaper. As an officer, I didn't have an opportunity to express my personal opinion and had to fulfil the order Captain Sergei Zhemchuzhnov "The devices attaching the pontoons to the sub were welded to the rust-eaten hull which in some places was as strong as foil," he said. The four pontoons themselves were being repeatedly topped up with air, he claimed, and one of the four was "absolutely wrecked" and needed constant reinflating. "They consistently bled down air pressure, and the K-159 crew was assigned to pressurize them every five hours to keep the sub afloat," the captain said. "A structure built of such components can hardly be called reliable," he said. The tragedy happened as the submarine was being towed across the Barents Sea to a scrapyard. The submarine was ripped away from some of the pontoons in rough weather. It tilted on its stern before sinking to the sea bed. Click here to find out more about sunken nuclear submarines and reactors in the region Captain Zhemchuzhnov said he was aware of the dangers but was forced to follow orders from his superiors. "As an officer, I didn't have an opportunity to express my personal opinion and had to fulfil the order," he said. Even as the operation began to struggle, Captain Zhemchuzhnov claimed his commanders were slow t
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PacEMakeR    RE:TOP 10 Navy's in the World   2/20/2004 1:39:39 PM
I read this a while back. Just goes to show what happens when the rule of an iron fist ceases. I dont quite agree with the rankings posted, but I'll have to explain later.
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french stratege    Do the 70 ship core navy Russian are operational?   2/20/2004 1:46:06 PM
That is probably true for a part but normally the 35 best SSN which on a par on technology with western countries and a number similar of best surface ships are still operationals, much better maintened (with spare parts of other non operational ships of the same class often) and managed by the best crews.A core of 70 ships is a little part of the hundred of soviet ships formerly operationals but it counts and if they work it is still impressive compared to other second rank navies(Russian admirals complained for such a low number). These reports are flawed with journalist suppositions and its is very difficult to know the true.Of course old november or victor type subs are mostly rusting and there spares are sold on black market but for the top core I'm less convinced.Also for the exercise nothing is sure and confirmed (like the lost of the missile) and Russian have lauch successfully SBN last years. My informations are more balanced, reliable, and differ for a lot.But UK press is well know to underestimate other and joke (I never trust journalists from UK, US or France: most of them are incompetent and too often corrupted). Should I remember you that all British SSN stayed at harbour for a problem in nuclear reactors last year (if I remember well)?For good performance core navy ship number Russian navy is still above UK.UK is above only if a too great part of these ship don't work.But you can not know, like me.
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Rule Britannia    RE:TOP 10 Navy's in the World   2/20/2004 2:21:05 PM
Do you have any proof that there is such a thing as an insulated fleet of the Russian Navy. If you would care to look at the reports, some of which have NATO statistics in them state that even the latest Russian Delta Class veesels have been affected and the Kursk only launched in 1994, sank because of poor crew training in the operation of torpedoes. And the last time there has been a problem with any British submarine was FIVE years ago when a microscopic crack was discovered in the reactor coolant pipe of HMS Tireless which took all of three months to refit the system at the British Naval Base in Gibraltar. I think if the same problem ever occured in a Russian submarine it would take a chronic overheat of the reactor, potentially harming the crew with radition sickness before it would be discovered as the Russians don't have the molecular diagnostic equipment that the British use to identify these problems in six-monthly safety procedures at BAE MARINE at Barrow-in-Furness.
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gf0012-aus    TOP 10 Navy's in the World - sick ships   2/20/2004 3:11:43 PM
I'd exercise some caution when quoting numers. Especially on Russian platforms. If you look at how many hulks are still flagged and "penanted" but are obviously incapable of going to sea (a substantial number litter the 6-7 Russian NW Ports and docks) then the declared numbers are somewhat optimistic. A ship that can't raise "a head of steam" is a shore battery - not a naval vessel.
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