Type 45 Destroyer vs F-22 Raptor

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Subject: Type 45 Destroyer vs F-22 Raptor
JTR~~ 8/28/2010 7:06:13 AM

Yes this is another vs. post. But this one is new (i haven’t seen this one on here so far) anyway, Type 45 destroyer, top of its field most modern surface ship in service and claimed by many to be the most advanced anti air destroyer in the world, how would such a ship fair against the F-22 raptor again top of its own relative class, the world’s most advanced warship against the world’s most advanced fighter plane, would the excellent Sampson radar be able to locate track and destroy the highly stealthy plane or would the F-22 use its tricks to send the ship to the bottom? You decide frankly i know not all too much about the Type 45s capabilities, however i do know that it has excellent radar, and is packed with high tech missiles also know i can track over 120 targets at once, prioritise the most dangerous and systematically destroy them one by one, it is also claimed the one type 45 can do the job of 5 of the older type 42 class, so like the F-22 it is a force multiplier, I also know that it has incorporated stealth features and many other technical innovations, but like I said who would win? try to keep it unbias please

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Slim Pickinz 8/30/2010 11:39:19 PM

Yes this is another vs. post. But this one is new (i haven?t seen this one on here so far)
anyway, Type 45 destroyer, top of its field most modern surface ship in service and claimed by many to be the most advanced anti air destroyer in the world, how would such a ship fair against the F-22 raptor again top of its own relative class, the world?s most advanced warship against the world?s most advanced fighter plane, would the excellent Sampson radar be able to locate track and destroy the highly stealthy plane or would the F-22 use its tricks to send the ship to the bottom? You decide

frankly i know not all too much about the Type 45s capabilities, however i do know that it has excellent radar, and is packed with high tech missiles also know i can track over 120 targets at once, prioritise the most dangerous and systematically destroy them one by one, it is also claimed the one type 45 can do the job of 5 of the older type 42 class, so like the F-22 it is a force multiplier, I also know that it has incorporated stealth features and many other technical innovations, but like I said who would win?
try to keep it unbias please

Type 45 being the best anti-air ship? That's laughable. Any ship with an AEGIS system and Standard II missiles is in a way better position to stop an air attack than a a Type 45 with its untested PAAMS and Aster missiles.

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AThousandYoung 8/31/2010 1:46:44 AM

This the article?

http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/SpecialReporton21stConOpsofAirOperations.pdf

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AThousandYoung 8/31/2010 1:52:41 AM

there's a very good article countering and establishing why the F-22 and JSF exist and how they are companion systems.

If they're companion systems then what do the non-US operators of the JSF do with it?

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cwDeici 9/2/2010 1:12:33 AM

Thank you so much for making an interesting thread that compares the F-22 to something sane.

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cwDeici 9/2/2010 1:24:46 AM

You all seem to be leaning in the direction I thought you would... that at least the Raptor won't get shot down.

So the question is whether its light armament could destroy the ship, which we have no way of finding out but assume to be unlikely without the JSF?

At any rate I suppose removing these two assets from their organic environment is bound to make it somewhat unrealistic, even if it was alone the Raptor would probably just spot it and go on with its air supremacy mission.

All I dare to say is that historically speaking relatively unsupported aerial assets within a comfortable range of their home bases have had the upper hand over unprotected naval assets. Recently with munitions becoming more accurate and lethal less numbers are necessary to sink a ship, but I don't know how that'd impact aerial casualty rates.

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gf0012-aust 9/2/2010 3:04:39 AM

If they're companion systems then what do the non-US operators of the JSF do with it?

I hope you're not suggesting that just because US allies don;t have the F-22 that they aren't able to apply force function in their own future force requirements.??

did you read the entire article?

are you aware of how many nations are moving down the force structure and systems rationale that has been espoused in that document - well before it was published.

force function and co-operative engagement operate outside of the concept of the F-22 and JSF construct.

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AThousandYoung 9/2/2010 7:30:22 PM

Yes, I read the entire article. While the F-22 and F-35 may be complimentary, the F-22 is obviously not required for the F-35 to be useful. However you said

"I'll see if I can find it as it articulates clearly why both aircraft are necessary"

They aren't both necessary. If they were then the JSF and F-22 would be treated as a package with respect to foreign sales, or "system" if you will, instead of separate platforms.

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gf0012-aust 9/2/2010 8:04:55 PM

They aren't both necessary. If they were then the JSF and F-22 would be treated as a package with respect to foreign sales, or "system" if you will, instead of separate platforms.

ah, you're taking it literally, my reference is to some of the idiots who decry the need for one or either aircraft.

in the case of US conops, they are clearly critical paths to their capability of functional force.

in the case of allies, the concpt is the key - not the platforms

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Reactive 9/4/2010 6:35:14 PM

Re: "World's most advanced warship".

Be careful when making that statement - there's three things that count against you when you say it.

a) It assumes that any vendor making such claims is making them impartially and that what they have said is universally accepted (far from the case)

b) It assumes that the entire package, radar, targeting computers, MISSILE systems (ASTER) are functioning as per initial design.(This is currently not the case, the system is currently not functional)

c) It assumes that being able to detect/track a moving LO/VLO target closing is the same as shooting it down, do you think Sampson or Aster's radar is going to be the weak link here? Sampson is likely to detect the F22 simply because of its reputed ability to track aerodynamic turbulence patterns at range

There are benefits and drawbacks to the PAAMS/Sampson approach, it's excellent at acquisition (it would possibly see an F22/F35 at greater ranges than many other systems), it still has to be able to shoot it down - my guess is that the terminal guidance phase would be the problem.

CAMM (if funded) is a system with a brighter future than Aster, in my opinion.

But either way, before you call the T45 the most advanced anything consider that it's currently patiently waiting for its missile systems to work as advertised, and even then, at the lower end of original specification.

Marketing hype one thing, reality is quite another.

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JTR~~ i expected this 9/5/2010 4:49:59 PM

Yes this is another vs. post. But this one is new (i haven?t seen this one on here so far)

anyway, Type 45 destroyer, top of its field most modern surface ship in service and claimed by many to be the most advanced anti air destroyer in the world, how would such a ship fair against the F-22 raptor again top of its own relative class, the world?s most advanced warship against the world?s most advanced fighter plane, would the excellent Sampson radar be able to locate track and destroy the highly stealthy plane or would the F-22 use its tricks to send the ship to the bottom? You decide

frankly i know not all too much about the Type 45s capabilities, however i do know that it has excellent radar, and is packed with high tech missiles also know i can track over 120 targets at once, prioritise the most dangerous and systematically destroy them one by one, it is also claimed the one type 45 can do the job of 5 of the older type 42 class, so like the F-22 it is a force multiplier, I also know that it has incorporated stealth features and many other technical innovations, but like I said who would win?

try to keep it unbias please

in all honesty I did, I think that many people would claim that the AEGIS is the better system purely because they have heard more about this particular system, i mean think about it a good percentage of media outlets are from the US so therefore are bound to have a positive view of US technology and military systems, the Type 45 on the other hand has not received anything like this kind of advertisement and publicity, much of what is said about the Type 45 on the internet i tend to feel is overly dismissive as yet again much of the internet is predominantly American, and not of what is said is neither entirely fair or accurate, it is true to say that the PAAMS system is unproven but on this basis alone it is unfair to dismiss the system as inferior to the AEGIS system, considering that there is much general agreement that with the addition of SAMPSON the Type 45 is the most advanced and most capable air defence destroyer in service, i am sure that with the same amount of attention of the AEGIS people would have more of an understanding about the Type 45 and its capabilities.

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