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Subject: The Royal Marine Commandos and the United States Marine corps
JTR~~    3/15/2010 3:23:32 PM
two professional forces, im not going to start to make comparrisons, i would like to know what people think the Pros and cons are of each, i mean we all the the reputations of the RMC and USMC on the battlefield, so if you could back up your claims with facts, try to avoid bias points of view (make sure your posts are balanced please otherwise this is pointless) and do not slander good names of the units, they both deserve our respect, but i will say you can decide which one you think is greater, but again pack this with facts thanks :)
 
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Ricky       6/4/2010 2:32:35 PM
Advantages of Royal Marine Commandos (RMC) is training (15 months for an officer, 32 weeks for soldier), equipment SA80 is now very reliable due to HK upgrade and is more compact than M16 and more powerful than M4 also Viking all terrain vechicle is an incredible machine. USMC advantages are size, equipment still good but not quite as good, but most of all fund is second to none.
 
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JTR~~    a sound argument   6/14/2010 10:44:49 AM

Advantages of Royal Marine Commandos (RMC) is training (15 months for an officer, 32 weeks for soldier), equipment SA80 is now very reliable due to HK upgrade and is more compact than M16 and more powerful than M4 also Viking all terrain vechicle is an incredible machine. USMC advantages are size, equipment still good but not quite as good, but most of all fund is second to none.

i would agree with that
 
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LB       6/14/2010 4:39:49 PM
The Royal Marines are are an elite infantry brigade from an organization of about 8,400 including reserves.  The USMC is an expeditionary force of 243,000 with reserves which includes it's own air force.
 
Comparing an RM commando with a Marine rifle battalion indicates the Marines are a heavier medium weight force.  Indeed a reinforced Marine rifle batt is probably the most powerful general purpose infantry battalion in the world.  Note "infantry" not mechanized.  One could argue the individual RM is marginally better and that in some specific situations would perform better.  If this is true it's besides the point given the two organizations are entirely different in size and scope.  Moreover, it's worth noting the 3 USMC battalions within MARSOC assigned to SOCOM and the re-activated Force Recon units which one might also argue are "better" than the average RM.
 
The RM contains a specific level of capability from a very well trained group.  The USMC is a much larger organization with far greater capability that also contains units with even more training.  The US has a large number of units along a broad spectrum of capabilities.  If the USMC was told to reduce it's size to the RM it might look more like the brigade and conversely if the RM was told to expand to 200,000+ it would not be able to keep the exact same quality in of it's current Commandos and would look more like the USMC.
 
The RM can spearhead a military operation.  The USMC conducts military operations.  The USMC is in fact larger than the active British Army and RAF of about 160,000 to 200,000.
 
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USN-MID       6/14/2010 5:10:56 PM

The Royal Marines are are an elite infantry brigade from an organization of about 8,400 including reserves.  The USMC is an expeditionary force of 243,000 with reserves which includes it's own air force.

 

Comparing an RM commando with a Marine rifle battalion indicates the Marines are a heavier medium weight force.  Indeed a reinforced Marine rifle batt is probably the most powerful general purpose infantry battalion in the world.  Note "infantry" not mechanized.  One could argue the individual RM is marginally better and that in some specific situations would perform better.  If this is true it's besides the point given the two organizations are entirely different in size and scope.  Moreover, it's worth noting the 3 USMC battalions within MARSOC assigned to SOCOM and the re-activated Force Recon units which one might also argue are "better" than the average RM.

 

The RM contains a specific level of capability from a very well trained group.  The USMC is a much larger organization with far greater capability that also contains units with even more training.  The US has a large number of units along a broad spectrum of capabilities.  If the USMC was told to reduce it's size to the RM it might look more like the brigade and conversely if the RM was told to expand to 200,000+ it would not be able to keep the exact same quality in of it's current Commandos and would look more like the USMC.

 

The RM can spearhead a military operation.  The USMC conducts military operations.  The USMC is in fact larger than the active British Army and RAF of about 160,000 to 200,000.



Exactly, LB hit it spot on. This is a poor comparison force on force. The USMC has got several things the RM doesn't even play with (tanks, LAVs, heavy artillery (howitzers), aircraft, among others.).
 
A better comparison, by numbers, would be to compare them to the 3 Marine Force Recon Battalions, which would also be ridiculous.
 
And the M16 may not be as compact, but equipped with the ACOG, is doing far better at reaching out in Afghanistan. 
If the M4 is inferior, why the hell does the SAS/SBS use it?
And the Viking is probably nicer than the ancient USMC AAV(to be replaced by the AAAV btw), but you've also got the M1 tank, V-22, LAV, or MRAPs. 
On the equipment side, I'd probably give the edge to the USMC. 
 
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USN-MID       6/14/2010 5:51:56 PM

The Royal Marines are are an elite infantry brigade from an organization of about 8,400 including reserves.  The USMC is an expeditionary force of 243,000 with reserves which includes it's own air force.

 

Comparing an RM commando with a Marine rifle battalion indicates the Marines are a heavier medium weight force.  Indeed a reinforced Marine rifle batt is probably the most powerful general purpose infantry battalion in the world.  Note "infantry" not mechanized.  One could argue the individual RM is marginally better and that in some specific situations would perform better.  If this is true it's besides the point given the two organizations are entirely different in size and scope.  Moreover, it's worth noting the 3 USMC battalions within MARSOC assigned to SOCOM and the re-activated Force Recon units which one might also argue are "better" than the average RM.

 

The RM contains a specific level of capability from a very well trained group.  The USMC is a much larger organization with far greater capability that also contains units with even more training.  The US has a large number of units along a broad spectrum of capabilities.  If the USMC was told to reduce it's size to the RM it might look more like the brigade and conversely if the RM was told to expand to 200,000+ it would not be able to keep the exact same quality in of it's current Commandos and would look more like the USMC.

 

The RM can spearhead a military operation.  The USMC conducts military operations.  The USMC is in fact larger than the active British Army and RAF of about 160,000 to 200,000.



Exactly, LB hit it spot on. This is a poor comparison force on force. The USMC has got several things the RM doesn't even play with (tanks, LAVs, heavy artillery (howitzers), aircraft, among others.).
 
A better comparison, by numbers, would be to compare them to the 3 Marine Force Recon Battalions, which would also be ridiculous.
 
And the M16 may not be as compact, but equipped with the ACOG, is doing far better at reaching out in Afghanistan. 
If the M4 is inferior, why the hell does the SAS/SBS use it?
And the Viking is probably nicer than the ancient USMC AAV(to be replaced by the AAAV btw), but you've also got the M1 tank, V-22, LAV, or MRAPs. 
On the equipment side, I'd probably give the edge to the USMC. 
 
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devildawg    Fools paradise   6/19/2010 8:07:45 PM
UNbelievable.  JTTR.  Another pointless board (yet, i'm responding).      Lets begin. You guys must be nerdy geeks who never really seen combat or just have a really bad case of INFEIORITY complex.  Let see the facts for what they are: British military, unfortunately, are a second rate/third rate power as shown in its dismal performance in Iraq.
 
Some of you are naturally biased and therfore are not objective. The Royal Marines are good outfit.  But you want to base your opinion on "whose better" on training and equipment. Fair enough. But, lets be real. The Royal Marine six-month training course does not impress me. I've seen it profiled on a British documentary. There was no real stress induced environment created by the instructors. No screaming at the recruits, hazing, or slight physical abuse. The recruits seemed coddled. They were given ample free time during their traing. Alright, there was some great physical components to the training, but the 30 mile timed march (which culminates at the end of training) is hard, but not impressive. The Marine recruits go through an initial 3 months of Boot Camp (which has a lot of physical and mental hardships). The Drill Instructor is Satan from Day 1 to the end. Your instructors couldn't scare 3 year old. After Bootcamp, Marines go for an additional 3 months of combat and Infantry school training.  Okay, the Royal Marines are considered an elite force, but not special forces. The USMC is not considered special forces but an elite amphibious attack force, which as been used as such. Besides, the USMC has Recon and Force Recon which requires a whole new set of training (6 months-1 year).As far as equimpment, the Marines in general have the latest and greatest weapons.
 
The heart of whose better is really relative, but if its based ON OVERALL PERFOMANCE. The USMC WINS. USMC has existed without being disbanded (with the exception of the American Civil War) since 1776.  The Royal Marines can't say that. The biggest point that makes the USMC overall better is its PERFORMANCE AND COMBAT EXPERIENCE: its never lost a battle and have PROVEN themselves on the battlefield. It was the Germans who gave the USMC the title "devil dogs" by the way they fought in WW I.  AS far as combat experience, they Royal Marines don't have it. They haven't been in the kind of battles and wars as the Marines: American Revolution, War of 1812, Berbary Pirates, Mex-Am War, Span-Amer war, WW I & II, Korea, Vietnam, etc..  BY THE WAY, it was the USMC that made the name MARINE popular throughout the world. USMC is more recognizable the the Royal Marines.  The USMC (including Force Recon-its called something different these days) have been some of the most brutal combats that the Royal Marines will never see. IT is the USMC sniper who have made headlines (especially in Vietnam and IRaq).
 
As far as calling the Royal Marines the spearhead attack force of British miliary. What has it spearheaded, nothing historically memorable (except for you guys). The USMC is known as America's 911. It has been used to spearhead many battles: Korea, Vietnam, etc... So come on. STOP with the INFERIORITY complex. BE honest.  It was after all very embarrassing to see Royal Marines surrender to the Iranians and Argentinians. So this is where I (and i suspect many others) stand.
 
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Panther       6/19/2010 9:31:18 PM
As per training, from what i have often read in the press, we might want to be careful devildawg, in our criticisms of the armed forces of our cousins across the pond. From what i understand, even the US, yes the even the marines, are trying to be politicized and brought to heel into all sorts of niceness towards a persons feelings and along with the political correctness when it comes to some one's sensibilities in training. And the beloved spawn of satan that was once the drill instructors of old, might now no longer have free reign to terrorize and whip the new recruits into fighting shape. From what i hear, they might be becoming a thing of the past. They are to be replaced, i hear, with the nanny instructor?
 
"Now children, please eat your vegetables on the plate or i will be forced in putting all of you on a time out in the corner for being a bunch of  naughty recruits!"...  "Now  private Johns, it is not nice too point your gun at private Lawrence. For that, you lose a gold star and no ice cream for tonight." - Sigh
 
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USN-MID       6/20/2010 12:41:33 PM

As per training, from what i have often read in the press, we might want to be careful devildawg, in our criticisms of the armed forces of our cousins across the pond. From what i understand, even the US, yes the even the marines, are trying to be politicized and brought to heel into all sorts of niceness towards a persons feelings and along with the political correctness when it comes to some one's sensibilities in training. And the beloved spawn of satan that was once the drill instructors of old, might now no longer have free reign to terrorize and whip the new recruits into fighting shape. From what i hear, they might be becoming a thing of the past. They are to be replaced, i hear, with the nanny instructor?


 

"Now children, please eat your vegetables on the plate or i will be forced in putting all of you on a time out in the corner for being a bunch of  naughty recruits!"...  "Now  private Johns, it is not nice too point your gun at private Lawrence. For that, you lose a gold star and no ice cream for tonight." - Sigh



Other services, from what I hear, it would seem so. Marines, not so much:
 
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devildawg    true   6/20/2010 8:23:44 PM
True, the "Mommys of America" lobby has done a great job in bringing down the Drill Instructor from days old; however, when it compared to the their equivalents in other countries--they, at least to me, are much better.
 
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Panther    @USN-MID & Devildawg   6/22/2010 1:07:46 AM
Nice video USN_MID. Very reassuring to see some pants are still being soiled the old fashioned way. I always hope that remains so gentlemen, because the last thing i would want to see or hear about is when our marines are hitting the beach is then being the equivalent to them dropping into a fetal position and sucking their thumbs when the sh!t hits the fan! It is bad enough that that is the image being perceived of our cousins and other allies around the globe, in which i like to still not believe is the case, for the simple expedient that that bodes all sorts of  ill for us; But the mere thought of that even happening to the Marine corps. Oh... holy hell, dear G*d.... NO! Sends shivers up my spine to even contemplate...
 
If that were to come to pass then gentlemen, we can be sure that hell in all of it's fury has finally come to the earth!
 
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