Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Armed Forces of the World Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Hypothetical question - The fall of the United States
Panther    9/8/2009 2:22:31 AM
What would happen if the United States ceased too exist 24 hours from now?
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: 1 2
xylene       9/8/2009 5:45:28 PM
Oh c'mon, you guys sound like everything will fly out of control without the USA. I agree there will be a big hole in the global economy due to US consumer market and some things may get stymied in litigation if US banks are involved, but I doubt a brawl among nations will erupt. Our 30,000 troops is not stopping N. Korea from invading S.Korea. More like the N.Koreans have wieghed the capabilities of ROK and feel they can not win decisively. China on Taiwan, in order to mount a successfull amphibious assault you need overwhelming force and numbers. China probably does not want to concentrate all it's forces and be left naked against Russian, Indian, and seperatist forces. More likely as the USA is out of the picture the Taiwanese simply roll over like the Swiss. Overall I doubt the world is just itching for a fight for no reason and the only thing holding them back is the USA. Even Isreal would be fine for awhile since they have current superiority of weapons and military. KFC, McDonalds, Coca Cola would all continue as operations are worldwide. Not much would be lost except maybe Harley-Davidson motorcycles and John Deere tractors. If anything it would cause a disruption in world oil supply as there would be a glut on the market without US consumption. Could have bad effects of lowering price of oil to the point it is no longer cost effective to refine or drill for it, which would then have a knockon effect with chemicals and plastics and excess shipping capacity. But even that scenario could be overcome in time due to estimated increases in demand from China and India.
 
I'm not a cheerleader of this but when our leaders decided offshore our heavy industries we became less relevant. We have effectively regulated ourselves into obscurity. The only thing that makes the USA a relavant power is it's military might , but that can not be sustained if the middle class is decimated.
 
Quote    Reply

buzzard       9/9/2009 1:09:44 PM
More likely as the USA is out of the picture the Taiwanese simply roll over like the Swiss.
 
 I am curious what this means. About the only case in which the Swiss have rolled you can cite is a banking issue (in particular one bank which has large US assets). On their sovereignty they don't budge. They are armed to the teeth and are militantly neutral.
 
Taiwan is nothing like Switzerland, and would have to do a lot to be like them. 
 
Quote    Reply

Carlos500       9/9/2009 5:37:22 PM




Parmenion- China would have just lost a good part of their economy. I can't see them doing anything but falling into civil turmoil with hundreds of millions out of a job.



 



Iran would either tone down real quick or face nuclear annihilation from Israel.



 



EU could become senior partner in a EU-Russia alliance because of a unified military and nuclear structure, but they could also become junior partner with their dependency on Russian gas.






Fair points.

 

I think something as huge and impossible as this scenario is pretty hard to predict. China would have a massive hole in their economy- but they're commmunist- they have no problems with letting a quarter of their people starve while fighting a big war. Look at Stalin or Mao. Siberia and Taiwan would be targets.

 

Russia has the capacity to destroy the EU with nukes, and vice versa. The EU has the technology, large population and strong economy (the strongest left in the world in this scenario) that Russia lack, not to mention stronger conventional forces. Russia has the gas that the EU lacks- but the EU can ration supply and build nulcear power stations. Ultimately Russia needs the EU more.

 

Iran would face nulcear annhialation but they might still be crazy enough to attack anyway.

 

Silly scenario anyway.





The EU had the largest/strongest economy in the world at the moment regardless of this scenario.
 
Quote    Reply

Carlos500       9/9/2009 5:39:57 PM

Europe
GDP (PPP) 2008 (IMF) estimate
 -  Total $15.247 trillion 
 -  Per capita $30,513 
GDP (nominal) 2008 (IMF) estimate
 -  Total $18.394 trillion (n/a)
 -  Per capita $36,812 

USA
GDP (PPP) 2008 estimate
 -  Total $14.264 trillion[4] (1st)
 -  Per capita $46,859[4] (6th)
GDP (nominal) 2008 estimate
 -  Total $14.264 trillion[4] (1st)
 -  Per capita $46,859[4] (17th)

 
Quote    Reply

Panther       9/10/2009 2:47:01 PM



















Parmenion- China would have just lost a good part of their economy. I can't see them doing anything but falling into civil turmoil with hundreds of millions out of a job.















 















Iran would either tone down real quick or face nuclear annihilation from Israel.















 















EU could become senior partner in a EU-Russia alliance because of a unified military and nuclear structure, but they could also become junior partner with their dependency on Russian gas.






























Fair points.







 







I think something as huge and impossible as this scenario is pretty hard to predict. China would have a massive hole in their economy- but they're commmunist- they have no problems with letting a quarter of their people starve while fighting a big war. Look at Stalin or Mao. Siberia and Taiwan would be targets.







 







Russia has the capacity to destroy the EU with nukes, and vice versa. The EU has the technology, large population and strong economy (the strongest left in the world in this scenario) that Russia lack, not to mention stronger conventional forces. Russia has the gas that the EU lacks- but the EU can ration supply and build nulcear power stations. Ultimately Russia needs the EU more.







 







Iran would face nulcear annhialation but they might still be crazy enough to attack anyway.







 







Silly scenario anyway.





























While the communists in power would be fine with it, I truly wonder whether such starvation, would spell a time of civil war or not.






true you can never tell with Amhed.



 



Good point on Russia



 



and yes a silly scenario ;)



 



fun to speculate on though.







 

I actually hope you're right on China. The Han chinese people have to stand up eventually or the state might collapse from lack of water before it can become democratic. (This is in the real world not the silly one). But the pessimistic grumpy part of me has his doubts...



It's fun to be silly sometimes I guess : )

 





 


Exactly! There is nothing wrong with a little silliness from time to time. Besides, since when did silliness for a thread topic ever stop a ridiculously silly serious discussion? Herc the Merc-Necromancer-Le Zookeeper threads are proof of that fact.    ;-p
 
Quote    Reply

andyf       9/25/2009 1:56:24 AM
john birmingham has written a book with just such a premise..' without warning'
very good, the sequel should be out soon
 
 
Quote    Reply

lurker       9/25/2009 3:11:38 AM

Oh c'mon, you guys sound like everything will fly out of control without the USA. I agree there will be a big hole in the global economy due to US consumer market and some things may get stymied in litigation if US banks are involved, but I doubt a brawl among nations will erupt. Our 30,000 troops is not stopping N. Korea from invading S.Korea. More like the N.Koreans have wieghed the capabilities of ROK and feel they can not win decisively. China on Taiwan, in order to mount a successfull amphibious assault you need overwhelming force and numbers. China probably does not want to concentrate all it's forces and be left naked against Russian, Indian, and seperatist forces. More likely as the USA is out of the picture the Taiwanese simply roll over like the Swiss. Overall I doubt the world is just itching for a fight for no reason and the only thing holding them back is the USA. Even Isreal would be fine for awhile since they have current superiority of weapons and military. KFC, McDonalds, Coca Cola would all continue as operations are worldwide. Not much would be lost except maybe Harley-Davidson motorcycles and John Deere tractors. If anything it would cause a disruption in world oil supply as there would be a glut on the market without US consumption. Could have bad effects of lowering price of oil to the point it is no longer cost effective to refine or drill for it, which would then have a knockon effect with chemicals and plastics and excess shipping capacity. But even that scenario could be overcome in time due to estimated increases in demand from China and India.

 

I'm not a cheerleader of this but when our leaders decided offshore our heavy industries we became less relevant. We have effectively regulated ourselves into obscurity. The only thing that makes the USA a relavant power is it's military might , but that can not be sustained if the middle class is decimated.


In the short term it would be an economic catastrophe. China loses its economy overnight, and even worse implications for all because suddenly the dollar is backed by nothing. Forget China, they are screwed royally (short term and maybe long term), the problem would be the South American countries and the Middle East. Chavez and the like getting too big for their britches, and I'd worry more for the other middle eastern governments than Israel itself.  Unless Amhed was immediately sacked or put on a short leash by a quick thinking ruler, I could see Israel dusting Iran. and perhaps others depending on the course of events. As for the people of Palestine...
 
On the subject of economic might vs military might, some would say the unimpeded free trade on the high seas is thanks to a single power's undisputed control of it. Military and economic power are not necessarily seperate as well. I have heard that the United States is less industry and more information services. software and etc.
 
With regards to heavy industries how much of the outsourced necessary materials comes from solid allies?
 
 
Quote    Reply

Parmenion       9/25/2009 12:16:18 PM
 
Also what is left of the US? If it sinks into the sea then naval strategy changes overnight, if only the people dissappear then Mexico and Canada divide it up and both become alot stronger and richer.
 
I suppose the US's carbon emissions stopping overnight not to mention emissions reductions in India and CHina from economic crisis might at least slowdown the effects of climate change, which would be a small mercy.
 
Europe will either take over many US roles over time, aided closely by nations like Canada, Japan, South American Nations and Australia, or just focus on it's own immediate needs and therefore focus on relations with Russia and securing oil from the Middle East.
 
Quote    Reply
1 2



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics