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Subject: Impact on US military deployment capabilities after US dollar collapse
Le Zookeeper    8/3/2009 3:37:37 AM
WHat if the rumors of an October devaluation of US dollar come true? How will it affect the combat ability of US military as far as global capabilities go.. I am not an expert here, but besides nuclear crafts everything will be a major expense, perhaps F-22s would be better of sold!!! I bet nobody knows.
 
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Beazz       8/15/2009 10:41:47 AM
Le Zookeeper    Beazz   8/14/2009 11:45:47 PM
And where are they now? You honest to God have no clue how America works do you?
 
I have more than a clue how America works, what really is a weak point is what happens when America does not work(who reaaly knows). In its short history AMerica has 2 very significant times when things did not work- Civil war (and oh the military was roaming the streets) Great Depression (no military here), and oh Vietnam war protests- I clearly wasn't living in the US then or have a detailed knowledge of those times, but again there was no important if any military involvement in the streets.
 
1 out 3 times when things "did not work" military was in the streets.
 
You call the civil war which killed more Americans then any time in US history a simple *did not work*????  Even then after the war it was recognized the military was now doing things they were not supposed to be doing and were eventually taken off the streets because its against the US constitution. Your shining example of failure is actually a shining example of the US constitution working as it was designed to clown. Not many nations in history could have the courage to fight a war like that and then the ability/courage when it was over to remove the military and put them back in their garisons where they came from. Another absolute glorious example of the greatness of America and the US military!!!
 
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Alexis       8/15/2009 6:50:27 PM
Beazz: "BTW, we have a littel thing here called the SPR ( strategic petroleum reserve) that has ~750 BILLION barrels of oil in it so they will get gas."
 
 
Actually, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve "As of July 27, 2009, the current inventory was 724 million barrels (115,100,000 m3). This equates to 34 days of oil at current daily US consumption levels of 21 million barrels a day. "
 
These were millions, not billions.
 
Regarding European countries, according to EU rules they maintain oil reserves for a minimum of 90 days of consumption.
 
 
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Beazz       8/15/2009 8:59:31 PM
Alexis       8/15/2009 6:50:27 PM
Beazz: "BTW, we have a littel thing here called the SPR ( strategic petroleum reserve) that has ~750 BILLION barrels of oil in it so they will get gas."
 
 
Actually, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reservelink style="color: #000000"> "As of July 27, 2009, the current inventory was 724 million barrels (115,100,000 m3). This equates to 34 days of oil at current daily US consumption levels of 21 million barrels a day. "
 
These were millions, not billions.
 
Regarding European countries, according to EU rules they maintain oil reserves for a minimum of 90 days of consumption.
You're right. I misprinted it as billion versus million. However, your analysis is wrong. The US only IMPORTS ~12.2 million barrels a day. We produce the rest and matter of fact are the worlds 3rd largest oil producer behind only Saudi Arabia and Russia. Only 1.3 million barrels a day behind Russia so not to far from number 2 which would no doubt be achieved in a emergency and only 2.5 million barrels a day behind SA for that matter.  So thats roughly 60 days of use at the 100% level which in the event of a complete 100% cuttoff of foreign oil would be unrealistic. Certainly personal use consumption would drop noticeably. We have more coal then all the oil in the mid east and enough of our own natural gas to supply this country for a couple centurys and in the event of a 100% cut in imported oil they would certainly be brought more to the forefront which would lessen the blow and in the long run be the best thing ever happened for us. Also the SPR is simply the governement owned reserve and is the single largest of this type in the world. The oil storage facilitys out in either Oklahoma or Texas, I forget where it is, where they keep millions of barrels of oil for current consumption is at all time highs and a few months ago were actually full to the brim. In short, we could go for many many months at almost current levels of use and with reductions in consumption at the personal level, as there would be, we could go on indefintiely. The infrastructure for coal use is already here and to a lesser degree so is the natural gas one. Coal has been cut back because of the tree huggers but in a emergency it could be brougth back up to speed quickly and could even force us to bring the natural gas infrastructure online sooner which would benefit us greatly. We have all we need right here so all we would need to do is buy a little time and life would go on without a whole lot of suffering. Thats not even counting the ~trillion barrels in shell oil the tree huggers again keep us from going after. But agin, in a emergency such as 100% cutoff from imports you can bet it would be to bad so sad tree huggers.
 
The EUs 90 day requirement is bassed on the previous years oil * imports* and
 
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Le Zookeeper    Beazz   8/16/2009 3:43:29 AM
Some clarifications- i have no connection to France,the handle is just that a handle. Actually I am a national of USA oh really passport et al.. And oh this depression militias etc are pretty much mainstream news, i hate to argue a speculative issue as past conduct or behaviour or performance is not indicative of the future. Your arguments are legitimate but do not guarantee similar conduct in the future.
 
If ur theory of how military behaved in the past is a 100%indicator of how they would behave in the future then black people
 need to worry about possible slavery or segregation since that was the American way a few decades ago. Past performance is no guarantee of  future performance.
 
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Le Zookeeper    Beazz   8/16/2009 3:49:15 AM
And plz i am not a conspiracy theorist nut, 9/11 happened and it was not an inside job, i do not believe in area 51. Militias and lone nutjobs with guns are an ever increasing threat in the streets, as compared to great dep 1 America is less able to cope due to new social conditions, lets wait and see its only 90 days more.
 
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xylene       8/16/2009 4:44:25 AM
Beazz is correct in assessment of SPR. Also that place in OK is Cushing, OK. Not sure if SPR is fully stocked at the moment though and remember it is only crude oil. It still has to be refined into gasoline and distributed.
 
While I don't believe in the dooms day predictions, Le Zookeeper has a point on social order. We all watched New Orleans decend into chaos after only a couple of days without food and electricity. If something on a larger scale happened..... I shudder to think.
 
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Le Zookeeper    & Xylene   8/16/2009 1:54:46 PM
Here in San Fran when I pop my laptop out in some cafes Iget warnings from the wait staff not to leave it unattended even for a second. So many homeless snatch them without ay fear or concern. Also here this funny one, the police and parking violations departmnts are handing out tickets with abandon, just this week in downtown Sunnyvale the wait stff told me to watch out for parking violations, apparently they are out in full force nowaays, he was so amused and remarked that one of the parking violations officers remarks routinely "it was a good day today". US tax revenues have dropped 19% greatest since GD1. What happenswhen 50% of US military gets pay cuts or work for free notices-- As you daid you do not believe in doomsday scenarios, but the current society has no safety stop- 1 to 2 days after Katrina, imagine that on a national scale. he military will be forced to step in. I mean what other option is there?
 
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Le Zookeeper    Beazz clarifications   8/16/2009 2:48:06 PM
oil needs to be refined and distributed. If militias take control, it won't happen. If its in Okla we will really need military , I hate to see the Bible belt in control here. Its not just an isolated assassination, but coupled with sudden collapse of dollar and social services. Some of the senior citizens here told me at least in GD1 they could grow potatoes in backyard some family support, etc etc. They told me if it happens again it will be crazy as there will be no food to eat very quickly. ANd oh yes gunboat diplomacy for money has been used(by number of countries of course) but primarily driven by politicos not military leaders. It would be interesting to see how the military would behave if say Swine flu, depression, devaluation, and social unrest + an assassination, and a pay cut happenes at the same time- the perfect storm.
 
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Beazz       8/16/2009 4:47:25 PM
Le Zookeeper    Beazz   8/16/2009 3:43:29 AM
Some clarifications- i have no connection to France,the handle is just that a handle. Actually I am a national of USA oh really passport et al.. And oh this depression militias etc are pretty much mainstream news, i hate to argue a speculative issue as past conduct or behaviour or performance is not indicative of the future. Your arguments are legitimate but do not guarantee similar conduct in the future.
 
If ur theory of how military behaved in the past is a 100%indicator of how they would behave in the future then black people
 need to worry about possible slavery or segregation since that was the American way a few decades ago. Past performance is no guarantee of  future performance.
 
What country are you from, as *naturalized* means nothing to me? Again, you draw all the wrong conclusions as to future American behavior and your conclusions indicate that of a Muslem background. By that I mean you never learn from your history and keep making the same old mistakes. You therefore conclude that America will do the same, which we do not. Your conclusion on how blacks should worry makes my point even more. Blacks and whites in this country know we learn from our history and we keep the good and disgard the bad. Blacks are no more worried of becoming slaves in this country then I am and THEY know it. Only a foreigner with an anti-American agenda would be ignorant enough to even suggest it. Besides, it was not the military that enslaved them in the first place.. duhhh. Like I have said before, you have no clue how America operates or what it stands for. Only your pipe dream wishes for it's downfall, which is not going to happen any time soon. Sorry, but your passport didn't give you that knowledge.
 
Your so called *speculative* issues, as you like to call them, by your tone and the manner in which you phrase them indicates to me someone who is not saying *what if*. but rather * I hope this is what happens*.
BeaZz
 
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Beazz       8/16/2009 5:05:24 PM
Le Zookeeper    & Xylene   8/16/2009 1:54:46 PM
Here in San Fran when I pop my laptop out in some cafes Iget warnings from the wait staff not to leave it unattended even for a second. So many homeless snatch them without ay fear or concern. Also here this funny one, the police and parking violations departmnts are handing out tickets with abandon, just this week in downtown Sunnyvale the wait stff told me to watch out for parking violations, apparently they are out in full force nowaays, he was so amused and remarked that one of the parking violations officers remarks routinely "it was a good day today". US tax revenues have dropped 19% greatest since GD1. What happenswhen 50% of US military gets pay cuts or work for free notices-- As you daid you do not believe in doomsday scenarios, but the current society has no safety stop- 1 to 2 days after Katrina, imagine that on a national scale. he military will be forced to step in. I mean what other option is there?
 
San Fran huh? Pretty much says it all. lol Just out of curiosity, why would you be taking your laptop around to cafes with you? Here in America practically every home has internet access and certainly they do in San Fran. Only type people I know of that do that outside of taking their laptops while traveling is someone trying to hide their internet footprint by useing a free service away from their home so as not to reveal their home IP address.
 
Still don't know what your point is. Yes there are occasions in which the military would step in, as there should be. Even in Katrina where the ~20th largest city in America had been totally flooded and law and order collasped and they were saying as many as 20K were dead (turned out to be much less thank God), they still would not allow it. I persoanlly thought they should have. But that just shows you how severe it will have to be before that happens. BTW, before you stick your foot in your mouth and think you got me about New Orleans and come back with the military was there. That was the National Guard and not active military. If there was this total collaspe of everything on the planet as you seem to be playing with then the active military would of course be  called in and they should be for Gods sake. The difference in here and other places, especially those great Islamic nations, when things get back to noraml, the military will be recalled and they will go without question and give the streets back to the people they have been protecting all along. You simply are not able to comprehend this for some reason and I suspect it is your natioanlity background.
 
Maybe if San Fran wasn't so busy paying the way for all their illegal aliens they would have some money and not have to resort to a ticket writing campiagn. Even that is not sustainable. Personally I wish they would annex California and give it to mexico. Give the 3 Americans there a chance to come back to America and to hell with California. Cali is nothing but a refuge for illegal aliens and nartionalized anti-American wack jobs who mean us no good.
 
Beazz
 
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