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Subject: Modern warrior vs ancient warrior, hand to hand and simple weapons
Nanheyangrouchuan    6/24/2009 1:06:15 AM
A discussion on the US board about TV shows and the mention of a show that pits ancient war fighting methods from different continents and time periods against each other has made me wonder who would win in fights between ancient warriors (ninjas, aztecs, knights, spartans, immortals, etc) against modern foot soldiers and spec ops in hand to hand and small arms combat. No throwing or shooting weapons.
 
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Herald12345    The ancients.   6/24/2009 3:26:25 AM

A discussion on the US board about TV shows and the mention of a show that pits ancient war fighting methods from different continents and time periods against each other has made me wonder who would win in fights between ancient warriors (ninjas, aztecs, knights, spartans, immortals, etc) against modern foot soldiers and spec ops in hand to hand and small arms combat.

No throwing or shooting weapons.

They knew how to use staff, spear, club, and sword which are the most common melee weapons used by ancient man.    Bare hands depends on the physical conditioning. Spartans and Roman legionaires would go through us like chaff as thoise monsters were ferociously strong, as would medieval Spaniards who would tear us physically apart. The others woukld be meat on the table to us, as we have combat histories of hand to hand combat between Apaches and Buffalo Soldiers and US 2nd Cavalry men to act as a real life laboratory test check. Knife fighting, the edge goes to modern man, especially to some of the knife fighters from the Mediterranean and the PACRIM  Some Filipinos are DEADLY quick.
 
In any case, the declared statements of athletic prowess we read in Homer and Mallory are well within our physical conditioning today as we actually can cleave a man in two with a broadsword (a feat attributed to the mythical Lancelot as a demonstration of his siuper human strength and which I've persoinally seen a modern normal man do to a hog with a machete). Its only when you read the accounts of the Conquista, Julius Caesar's campaigns, of the Peloponesian War that you run into the "superhuman" feats of physical prowess. Men who can move 400 pound logs, as if they were matchsticks are not to be feared, they are to be awed. 
 
It probably comes down to trainimng and skill in the weapon set. . 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Parmenion       6/24/2009 8:30:13 AM
 
They had Shaolin monks and similar orders back into the time of the Roman empire.
 
They have Shaolin monks and similar orders now.
 
These guys can do everything you mentioned, and more. Whilst composing it into a form of meditation. 
 
Then of course, there's this guy.
 
Not to mention this guy who did this 52 times. About 15 times the bull was killed by the first blow.
 
Martial arts masters across time probably win this one in weapons and hand to hand.
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       6/24/2009 5:20:49 PM
Better sciences breeds more fit and capable warriors today but a hard life may have bread hardier warriors back then.
 
The Shaolin are a pale shadow of what they used to be as with all Chinese martial arts societies.  The KMT and the Communists did like like one man gangs roaming around, able to knock down a squad of police or soldiers in hand to hand combat.  So they were given jobs that robbed them of their ability to stay physically fit and during the cultural revolution, many instructors and famous fighters were imprisoned simply to prevent them from teaching and make them physically weak.
 
And I would suspect modern Filipino knife fighters take many of their lessons from ancient times.
 
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Herald12345    It takes about 70 joules to crack a man's skull open.   6/24/2009 6:00:45 PM

 

They had Shaolin monks and similar orders back into the time of the Roman empire.

 

They have Shaolin monks and similar orders now.

 

These guys can do everything you mentioned, and more. Whilst composing it into a form of meditation. 

 

Then of course, there's this guy.

 

Not to mention this guy who did this 52 times. About 15 times the bull was killed by the first blow.

 

Martial arts masters across time probably win this one in weapons and hand to hand.

Mister Cow dies nicely at 200 joules. How much energy can the average Human punch?
 
 
Killing an ox with your fist is not that big a deal.
 
Herald
 
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Parmenion       6/24/2009 6:29:54 PM




 



They had Shaolin monks and similar orders back into the time of the Roman empire.



 



They have Shaolin monks and similar orders now.



 



These guys can do everything you mentioned, and more. Whilst composing it into a form of meditation. 



 



Then of course, there's this guy.



 



Not to mention this guy who did this 52 times. About 15 times the bull was killed by the first blow.



 



Martial arts masters across time probably win this one in weapons and hand to hand.




Mister Cow dies nicely at 200 joules. How much energy can the average Human punch?

 


 


Killing an ox with your fist is not that big a deal.


 

Herald

Killing a bull when it is fighting back- prehaps a bit bigger. My grandad farmed cattle for a while and the big bull, Bill, was gentle but when the ground got wet and he ran for you to get his food, and then he suddenly skidded to a halt- you wanted to leave a gap because he could cripple you by accident.
Those energy values are interesting but I'm sure you can apreciate the difference between hitting a punching bag and a thrashing bull trying to trample and gore you. Also 200 joules seems a little low since as you source points out this Rocky Marciano bloke could punch equivalent to over a thousand joules- and he did not actually kill people in a single blow. Bulls have not just thicker skulls, but also more tissue on top of the skull designed to absorb blows like Homer from the Simpsons.
 
And then there's the guy who can do the same thing to a tiger.
 
I'm not trying to start an argument here- and I liked your story about the Roman legionaire by the way- I'm just saying there's alot of talent out there.
 
The point about the Shaolin being mistreated by the PRC is a good one- I think some masters survived and hid as the "living textbooks" and are now back teaching since the goverment now sees the Shaolin as a PR exercise- but undeniably so much has been lost and it's a tradgedy http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/face11.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" />
 
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Herald12345    Lets talk about 100,000 joules then........   6/25/2009 1:00:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/vfe6Hq2eWTQ&hl=en&fs=1&"> http://www.youtube.com/v/vfe6Hq2eWTQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344">
 
And let's not forget these guys.........
 
 

 
http://www.youtube.com/v/LOOiu2UdHeM&hl=en&fs=1&"> http://www.youtube.com/v/LOOiu2UdHeM&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344">
 
There is tough, and then there is tough. The fact that modern men can tame bulls enough to treat them as helpless practice targets is both a testament to our skills and prowess as men, and a comment on our abuse of the animals. The future hamburger and steaks deserve much better from us I think.
 
Herald
 
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Parmenion    Poor Bulls   6/25/2009 6:52:23 AM
"There is tough, and then there is tough. The fact that modern men can tame bulls enough to treat them as helpless practice targets is both a testament to our skills and prowess as men, and a comment on our abuse of the animals. The future hamburger and steaks deserve much better from us I think.
 
Herald"
 
Yeah you're right we should treat them better. A nice big field, and some lady cows to be friends with. I know I wouldn't want to be ridden by a drunken man from South Carolina 5 days of the week LOL.
 
Have a nice day,
 
Parmenion
 
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