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Subject: What Can We Do To Fix The US Army?
Softwar    2/13/2009 3:50:26 PM
Besides spares and maint. - Let's go with aviation equipment for starters - the Army needs a replacement for the remaining UH-1 choppers, a new light observation chopper to replace aging Kiowas, upgrades to the AH-64 force, and a new series of heavy lift choppers (or more Chinooks) to maintain air mobile levels. Now armor - we need to upgrade the Stryker and add more to replace low armored HUMVEEs in front line service. Ground transport - better armored trucks seem to be in order here. Artillery - can someone please finallly pick a SP 155 platform that makes sense?? Infantry - we have the M-4 procurement to complete and Geeezzz Louise... replace the 9 MM pistol with the 1911. Buy more 50 cals. Improve local intell - small UAVs, trained translators and handlers instead of tearing around town trying to be nasty. ID systems for both captured enemy as well as friendly forces. Training and logistical support - develop and deploy small unit tactics - these were very ineffective especially in urban environments. A NTC for small unit and urban warfare is in order here. Make use of combat experience vets instead of simply letting them wander off. We did that in WII and Korea - it works and saves lives. Instead, we muster them out after being assured they will not go bezerk and pop a cap in someone. Leadership!!! The patrol and plaster tactics used during OIF took too many casualties and left guys with their butts hanging out without proper communications, air support or control. Officers were slow to utilize unmanned/robot systems - instead they opted to bust down doors with the old bad-ass entry and shoot 'em up. Top brass are more interested in micro managing unit activity than trying to supply them with the tools and turning them loose.
 
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Parmenion    RE: Deathmatch   2/22/2009 1:26:46 PM
 
The generalship and logistics points are interesting. Just seems like each one saying the other presents opinions as facts could go on for weeks. I'm not taking sides in the debate by the way, because I don't have the facts to judge, just a smattering of facts and my own opinion. I always think of debate as trying to convince as many people as possible, not personally destroy them. Which is why in my opinion, whis has become more of a glorified cagematch than a debate.
 
 Don't really mind if you guys are fine with it and both consent though, whatever floats your boat http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emsmiled.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" />
 
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DarthAmerica    Herald has not posted fact, only opinion and errors. Especially with regard to Basra and LOC   2/22/2009 3:53:49 PM
 
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HERALD1357    How to demolish an argument in one post.    2/22/2009 5:24:03 PM
DarthAmerica    Herald has not posted fact, only opinion and errors. Especially with regard to Basra and LOC   2/22/2009 3:53:49 PM

 
One advantage of science training is knowing how to simply puncture an assertion-especially a ridiculous one.
 
 
Lets quote it shall we?
 
British Move Raises Fears on Iraq Supply Lines
 

WASHINGTON, Sept. 15 — As British troops pull out of their last base in Basra, some military commanders and civilian government officials in the area are concerned that the transition could leave them and a major supply route to Baghdad at greater risk of attack.

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http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/09/16/world/0916-for-web-MILITARYmap.jpg" alt="" width="191" border="0" height="263" />
The New York Times

British troops in Basra are handing over security to Iraq.

http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/anchor.gif" alt="" />

The route, a lifeline that carries fuel, food, ammunition and equipment for the war, crosses desert territory that is home to rival militias and criminal gangs. In interviews, Americans stationed in the southern provinces and Pentagon planners say they are closely watching the situation there as the British pass security responsibility to local Iraqi units.

There is little talk of increasing the American troop presence along the major supply route, which links Baghdad and Kuwait and is called M.S.R. Tampa, although officials in Baghdad and Washington say other options include increased patrols by armed surveillance aircraft, attack helicopters and combat jets.

The significant attention being paid to security in southern Iraq came as the senior allied commander, Gen. David H. Petraeus, announced plans in Washington this week to reduce American troop presence by five combat brigades across the country by next summer.

General Petraeus, in an interview this week, said he was confident that continued allied and Iraqi patrols along the supply routes, and a growing Iraqi security presence in the south, would guarantee protection of the desert roadways.

But the general, en route back to his headquarters in Baghdad, also said that he would stop in London, where ?we are going to talk tasks? and that ?among the tasks is the need to continue line-of-communications security, certainly.?

General Petraeus said the security mission in three of the four provinces in southern Iraq already had passed to Iraqi forces with no discernible impact on the supply routes. And he said bypass routes now being used allow convoys to skirt some trouble areas.

The British pulled out of their last base in central Basra on Sept. 3, and ar

 
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DarthAmerica    Herald your info is so inaccurate as to be laughable. It helps to have direct experience with this particular issue. Try again.   2/22/2009 5:38:02 PM
 
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DarthAmerica    Herald your info is so inaccurate as to be laughable. It helps to have direct experience with this particular issue. Try again.   2/22/2009 7:54:02 PM
 
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EvilFishy       2/22/2009 8:15:26 PM
Food for thought:  You can have direct experience in a particular area and still be WRONG.
 
 
 
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DarthAmerica       2/22/2009 10:56:26 PM

Food for thought:  You can have direct experience in a particular area and still be WRONG.


 

OK...lol. I supposed you felt it necessary to say something. Except that if you have any idea or true knowledge about this subject, in particular OIF logistics, then you know I'm not wrong. Herein lay the problem. Some people get confused and assert things as fact when in fact it is their less than perfect perception of an event rather than fact. But you know what, so be it. If one of you is compelled to believe that inaccurate post then go for it. Heralds interpretation of that news story is definitely not a fact, I have confirmed that by direct participation in events described and YOU can confirm it if you know that to look for while reading it. But, again, it makes no difference to me except to confirm that in spite of intelligence or technical knowledge, some still allow emotions to cloud their better judgement.

And, again, to whom it may concern, WTF does this have to do with the thread topic? Other than it's crystal clear Herald doesn't understand much about OIF. Makes sense in a way since much of the operational and strategic scope of the operation are so poorly understood by the press, media and civilians in general. Some of that by design.


-DA 
 
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HERALD1357    Macro as opposed to micro-perspective EF.   2/23/2009 10:33:30 AM
That is another mistake that Darth makes.
 
I have been wrong, and will be wrong on many things (details) but Mister Darth doesn't even see the fundamental errors he makes every time he asserts in this thread.
 
He shows he knows next to nothing about military economics or COSTS and he blithely ignores the politics and geography as if it didn't matter.

You know the physics saying that most events are local and present, but most observations we make of events are distant and past?
 
THAT is Darth's error.
 
Herald

 
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DarthAmerica    US SLOC Does not run through Basra. If you're familiar with the AO, you'd know that. You didn't...   2/23/2009 1:19:57 PM
 
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DarthAmerica    Before calling the generalship incompetent, one must be competent or have the integrity to acknowledge otherwise.   2/23/2009 2:09:48 PM
 
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