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Subject: What Can We Do To Fix The US Army?
Softwar    2/13/2009 3:50:26 PM
Besides spares and maint. - Let's go with aviation equipment for starters - the Army needs a replacement for the remaining UH-1 choppers, a new light observation chopper to replace aging Kiowas, upgrades to the AH-64 force, and a new series of heavy lift choppers (or more Chinooks) to maintain air mobile levels. Now armor - we need to upgrade the Stryker and add more to replace low armored HUMVEEs in front line service. Ground transport - better armored trucks seem to be in order here. Artillery - can someone please finallly pick a SP 155 platform that makes sense?? Infantry - we have the M-4 procurement to complete and Geeezzz Louise... replace the 9 MM pistol with the 1911. Buy more 50 cals. Improve local intell - small UAVs, trained translators and handlers instead of tearing around town trying to be nasty. ID systems for both captured enemy as well as friendly forces. Training and logistical support - develop and deploy small unit tactics - these were very ineffective especially in urban environments. A NTC for small unit and urban warfare is in order here. Make use of combat experience vets instead of simply letting them wander off. We did that in WII and Korea - it works and saves lives. Instead, we muster them out after being assured they will not go bezerk and pop a cap in someone. Leadership!!! The patrol and plaster tactics used during OIF took too many casualties and left guys with their butts hanging out without proper communications, air support or control. Officers were slow to utilize unmanned/robot systems - instead they opted to bust down doors with the old bad-ass entry and shoot 'em up. Top brass are more interested in micro managing unit activity than trying to supply them with the tools and turning them loose.
 
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HERALD1357    Nothing changes over time not even the excuses people make for their failures.   2/19/2009 6:01:49 AM
That is another truism of HISTORY and is a FACT.
 
"Stab in the back, by the civilians." Germans in WW I, and Americans in Vietnam and soon in Afghanistan.
 
Herald
 
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flyingarty    Verog   2/19/2009 9:48:57 AM




How about standardizing on ONE attack helicopter platform? That the Army and Marines can not standarize is stupid! No one has yet been able to tell me why the Marines cant have Apache's.



 



For the SPA field gun, buy it from the Germans : the Pzh 2000 Panzerhaubitze Self-propelled Howitzer. This thing works.Yeah,yeah, I know its heavy, but its cheaper than developing NLOS!



 



These are 2 solutions that would be cheaper and still an upgrade. Congress seems to want to cut every thing military in spending.



 



Flyingarty






the USMC and US army used the AH-1 oringinally then the US army went with a next generation attack helo while the USMC settled for a major upgrade to its fleet of AH-1


Sincerely,

 

Keith



Hi Keith,
 
Would Marine's take the Apache if it was offered to them? I guess the Super-Cobra is cheaper, but wouldnt standarizing on one attack chopper be cheaper and better overall? Just asking and takes for the reponse,Flyingarty.
 
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JFKY    Uh Because Herald   2/19/2009 10:01:12 AM
We HAVEN'T crammed more military histroy into 240 years than Russia, Prussia or France did in 600 years....The US didn't fight a major war until 1861....the Europeans ahve been waging wars with several hundred thousnad troops and then at least 100,000 troops LONG before the US existed and long befor we ever fought a large-scale major war....and basing your war-fighting on fighting the "Indians" is pretty stoopit, if you ask me...as the Indians didn't have Maxim guns, heavy artillery, a coherent doctrine and a coherent military...you know unlike the Germans in the Meuse-Argonne.
 
And it bothers menot at all we stole from the Russians/Soviets....they hadsome great ideas.
 
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strat-T21C       2/19/2009 10:40:25 AM

We HAVEN'T crammed more military histroy into 240 years than Russia, Prussia or France did in 600 years....The US didn't fight a major war until 1861....the Europeans ahve been waging wars with several hundred thousnad troops and then at least 100,000 troops LONG before the US existed and long befor we ever fought a large-scale major war....and basing your war-fighting on fighting the "Indians" is pretty stoopit, if you ask me...as the Indians didn't have Maxim guns, heavy artillery, a coherent doctrine and a coherent military...you know unlike the Germans in the Meuse-Argonne.

 

And it bothers menot at all we stole from the Russians/Soviets....they hadsome great ideas.


There is nothing wrong in using a good, sound docterine that works, even if it does come from somone else. As for the indian wars, well that was just ethnic cleansing and fear driven murder. I wonder what the PTSD rate was from that!
 
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HERALD1357    Why don't you LEARN some of that history JFKY?   2/19/2009 12:19:56 PM

We HAVEN'T crammed more military histroy into 240 years than Russia, Prussia or France did in 600 years....The US didn't fight a major war until 1861....the Europeans ahve been waging wars with several hundred thousnad troops and then at least 100,000 troops LONG before the US existed and long befor we ever fought a large-scale major war....and basing your war-fighting on fighting the "Indians" is pretty stoopit, if you ask me...as the Indians didn't have Maxim guns, heavy artillery, a coherent doctrine and a coherent military...you know unlike the Germans in the Meuse-Argonne.

 

And it bothers menot at all we stole from the Russians/Soviets....they hadsome great ideas.

I said in 240 years as opposed to many EU nations in the last 600. If you would pay careful attention to what I write instead of what you think I write, then you won't have me pointing out these many errors that you make.

Indians didn't have Maxim guns in 1876, and neither did Europeans. We however hasd Gatling guns and generals too stupid to use them. CUSTER comes to mind.
 
The more you  try to argue your case the more I make mine.
 
EXAMPLE:
 
The Russians had some good ideas that they tried to implement in 1944. We copied them in 1983. WHAT was WRONG with that picture?
 
Herald

 
 
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JFKY    Herald....   2/19/2009 12:48:00 PM
Why do we need to rip off others when we've crammed more military experience in 240 years than most EU states have in the last 600?
 
Like any good evasion, half-truth or distortion, this is true...as far as it goes.  The US has crammed more military experience in its 240 year history than Monacco, or Andorra or Luxemburg...but it has NOT crammed more in its 240 years than RUSSIA, FRANCE, and PRUSSIA.
 
I think I did respond to what you wrote....And I will repeat it, the US did not fight it's first major, modern war until 1861....the Russians, the Prussians, the Holy Roman Empire, the Dutch, and the French had been fighting with hundreds of thousands of troops and several battles involving 100,000 plus BEFORE THERE WAS A US.  They have a longer and richer military history....
 
The US, until the 20th Century, really did not have a large scale military tradition.  This is HISTORY and FACT, you to put yor spin on it.
 
 
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DarthAmerica    Just an observation...   2/19/2009 1:23:23 PM

We HAVEN'T crammed more military histroy into 240 years than Russia, Prussia or France did in 600 years....The US didn't fight a major war until 1861....the Europeans ahve been waging wars with several hundred thousnad troops and then at least 100,000 troops LONG before the US existed and long befor we ever fought a large-scale major war....and basing your war-fighting on fighting the "Indians" is pretty stoopit, if you ask me...as the Indians didn't have Maxim guns, heavy artillery, a coherent doctrine and a coherent military...you know unlike the Germans in the Meuse-Argonne.


And it bothers menot at all we stole from the Russians/Soviets....they hadsome great ideas.

I said in 240 years as opposed to many EU nations in the last 600. If you would pay careful attention to what I write instead of what you think I write, then you won't have me pointing out these many errors that you make.

Indians didn't have Maxim guns in 1876, and neither did Europeans. We however hasd Gatling guns and generals too stupid to use them. CUSTER comes to mind.

The more you  try to argue your case the more I make mine.


EXAMPLE:

The Russians had some good ideas that they tried to implement in 1944. We copied them in 1983. WHAT was WRONG with that picture?

Herald





Russia isn't an EU State. Also, the Russians have a lot of good ideas worth copying. Not all, but some. With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight we can pick and choose ideas and methods to copy and I don't see why Herald is making that an issue. No nation is perfect and all can learn something from others. In any event, non of this has anything to do with the assertion that the U.S. Army needs to be fixed. 

Also with regard to a case Herald. You really haven't made one. You are Cherry Picking the very worst things with almost no context and then asserting your opinion of it as fact. I don't mean that as an insult but that's how it looks. Perhaps if you articulated your issues more and provided an ethos and logos to go with this pathos, it might help everyone to at least understand your point of view.

Please if you choose to respond keep things civil and lets not get into a pissing match. There are just more than a few of us trying to understand you right now. 

-DA 
 
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strat-T21C    Darth   2/19/2009 1:33:33 PM
Is the Army broken?
Is it a case of, after 7 yrs of non-stop, continuous deployment, that it (the institution) is simply tired.
 
 
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verong    Flyingarty   2/19/2009 3:16:07 PM









How about standardizing on ONE attack helicopter platform? That the Army and Marines can not standarize is stupid! No one has yet been able to tell me why the Marines cant have Apache's.







 







For the SPA field gun, buy it from the Germans : the Pzh 2000 Panzerhaubitze Self-propelled Howitzer. This thing works.Yeah,yeah, I know its heavy, but its cheaper than developing NLOS!







 







These are 2 solutions that would be cheaper and still an upgrade. Congress seems to want to cut every thing military in spending.







 







Flyingarty














the USMC and US army used the AH-1 oringinally then the US army went with a next generation attack helo while the USMC settled for a major upgrade to its fleet of AH-1






Sincerely,



 



Keith









Hi Keith,

 

Would Marine's take the Apache if it was offered to them? I guess the Super-Cobra is cheaper, but wouldnt standarizing on one attack chopper be cheaper and better overall? Just asking and takes for the reponse,Flyingarty.




 

Hey There,

no! they would not unless they lost a big chunk of the helos in this war. I believe that a new attack helo may come soon, but I am not sure of that. The USMC is using up its' helos as is the US Army, Thus the plan to upgrade them all may go by by, but again I am not positive of this!!!!
 
Sincerely,
 
Keith
 
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verong    Flyingarty   2/19/2009 3:30:01 PM

Is the Army broken?

Is it a case of, after 7 yrs of non-stop, continuous deployment, that it (the institution) is simply tired.

 



Hey There,
 
no! It is not run down, but yes it may be a little out of shape, and it shows. This may work its way out as the US Military builds the required and equipt force to match the needs of the war. The US Military has used up alot of reseves and is now having to build everything new which should not be a surprise! Thus there will be an increase in effectiveness of the US Military for years to come even though it has been at war for years. There nothing like knowing the ammo will work first shot, or the MRE is not old and taste better as a resulthttp://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emsmiled.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" />
 
Sincerely,
 
Keith
 
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