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Subject: Why all the hostilities towards China?
analdestroyer    1/19/2009 12:29:29 AM
I sometimes wonder why all the hostilities towards china in this forum?, i even read that someone suggested the US to send B2 to wreck chinese three gorges dam? where all of this come from, is it from jealousy?, certaintly not as you americans has been living so well off, is it because dare i say 'fear' as the chinese are rapidly catching up on you, certainly this is exagerrating, no matter how fast the chinese are growing its still decades away to be on the same footing as the US, or is it because they are different? different in their way of doing things that you guys are so worked up, different yet produces the same or arguably better results, for example china is not democracy so it must be evil, yes china is not democracy nor it needed to be at the moment, but its heading that way, for democracy to work first the state must achieve stability and to achieve stability means continuing economic growth, after all democray is where the people become more affluent and so they demand more say on how goverments run things, remember democray does not make western countries rich, they become rich because of colonization (mercantilism) and industrialization (which is what the chinese are doing), secondly your mantra of free market capitalism over state controlled economy, you seems to think that the state is naturally idiot and the market is naturally brilliant, guess again it was an epic mistake, it is you who now moving toward state control—by nationalizing the banking and car industries, and imposing heavy new regulation on the financial industry, accusing them of yuan depreciation while ignoring the fact that is has been increasing by 21.5% towards the dollars, the chinese are a nation of learners they learn from others success and mistakes, they want to avoid the fate of russia in 90's moving too fast from socialism economy to free market and democracy, you americans called it shock therapy which proves to be all shock and no therapy, and you might be suprised that 8 out of 9 of its top leaderships is engineers instead of attorneys and lawyers like in the US you should read this article on newsweek http://www.newsweek.com/id/178810/page/1 its quite rare US media potrays China in positive light
 
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HERALD1357    Darth reply   1/23/2009 5:34:34 PM
You did see where I told you, you were NOT the subject expert?
 
Why did I say that hútú dàn?
 
Herald 
 
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DarthAmerica       1/23/2009 5:56:49 PM

You did see where I told you, you were NOT the subject expert?

 

Why did I say that hútú dàn?

 

Herald 

Not this time Herald. &>5105;&>0358;&>2312;&>1644;&>4179;&&3287;&>6178;&O5292;&>2312;&>2580;&&0340;&>0854;&>0182;&>0154;&O5292;&>5105;&>3562;&&7325;&>1482;&>6377;&&5504;&>5552;&>0379;&>5105;&&0340;&>4847;&&5211;&<2290;&>5105;&<9981;&>6159;&>6377;&<9968;&>0491;&>4188;&&1258;&&3016;&&7096;&>7590;&>5171;&&1478;&&6093;&&3287;&>4744;&&2879;&&2363;&<2290;&>6085;&>3433;&<2290;You will have to come with something a bit more compelling than calling me clueless.


-DA 
 
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Scoobydo       1/23/2009 6:20:00 PM
"I'll follow this thread closely and chime in where appropriate with my opinion but I just wanted to share with you my disagreement with the assertion that the PRC is evil and an enemy of the USA."
 
I hope you are right.
 
At the end of the day though,  it isn't about what we think, it is about what the Chinese think.
 
This link will perhaps give you an insight into what is going on in China.
 
 
***p://shanghaiist.com/2008/12/27/chinese_nationalism_indoctrination.php
 
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gf0012-aust       1/23/2009 8:47:53 PM
as someone with a chinese herritage,  as someone who was attached to what was euphemistically referred to as "the china task force"' during tiananmen, and as someone who in the early days of the end of the cold war spent time interviewing political refugees (and often chinese who'd come through the siberian "border").  I can assure you that it does not matter what the US thinks - the chinese as a people see it as their right to be a 21st century of the middle kingdom - now the average chinese retailer might only care about attending to someones retail therapy and to get along accordingly - at a military and government level there is an overwhelming sense of  manifest destiny - and they take a very very long view.

we did a 25 year projection on china after tiananmen, and everything we said is coming to pass - in fact its accelerating as they have looked, listened and learnt at every other useful economic and military model and have no qualms about making mistakes to get to the end zone.  In western eyes its stupidity to develop and  build significant assets at "jobbing rates"  as there is seen to be no efficiencies or economies of scale -  they on the other hand are willing to steal, borrow and make genetic overtures to those outside the "kingdom" to work for the good of the country of their ancestors (I've had half a dozen approaches in my working life).  They are very very good at playing the ancestral string. A look at all their major capital projects shows far more determination than most would have assumed was practical - but everytime they are denied access, they immediately send out a directive to get whatever info is required to build it themselves.  They don't care if the first one doesn't work like ours - what they care about is showing that you can't stop them getting things that they want - and that from a society like theirs shows incredible focus.

You may not see china as the enemy - but the govt and the military surely do see the US as the current symbolic vehicle of their last 150 years of humiliation. They will go to war on you as soon as they think they have the advantage.  for them it is a generational  plan - and they see that they can humiliate the US within a generation.  Why the US?  well, if you take out the alpha dog in the wrecking yard - then you run a good chance of making it through and getting what you want, and they regard europeans as idealists still stuck in some fabian fairy world of we all living in the sandpit in a display of total egalitarianism.  They also see that in their view, they were responsible for building the infrastructure that enabled the US to become an economic giant, and a military superpower - so chinese firmly believe that the path has been laid by all those before them who worked on "gold mountain" and the transnational railroad and that the US would still be a backwater without chinese labour.

This  is one of those issues where I firmly  believe that if you don't have chinese DNA,. or haven't lived there for a long time then your appreciation is built around western contructs.  They have 150+ years of lost face to make amends for, and by golly, the US will eventually get pulled over a battlefield for it.  Congress needs to wake up - and the executives of US companies that knowingly sell off the jewels should be stuck in the clink.
 

 
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YelliChink       1/23/2009 10:36:58 PM
China may not be immediate threat now, as commies have bigger problem to deal with at the moment. However, a potential threat is a potential threat. There is no telling about what will commies do if Chinese population are happy with commie fascism, but no doubt we are probably going to be the the first on their to-do list. My nightmare would be an Anschluss, and there will be no mountain passage I can escape while singing Edelweiss.
 
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HERALD1357    I actually identified you as something more akin to a ego driven nerd.   1/23/2009 11:09:56 PM




You did see where I told you, you were NOT the subject expert?



 



Why did I say that hútú dàn?



 



Herald 




Not this time Herald. &>5105;&>0358;&>2312;&>1644;&>4179;&&3287;&>6178;&O5292;&>2312;&>2580;&&0340;&>0854;&>0182;&>0154;&O5292;&>5105;&>3562;&&7325;&>1482;&>6377;&&5504;&>5552;&>0379;&>5105;&&0340;&>4847;&&5211;&<2290;&>5105;&<9981;&>6159;&>6377;&<9968;&>0491;&>4188;&&1258;&&3016;&&7096;&>7590;&>5171;&&1478;&&6093;&&3287;&>4744;&&2879;&&2363;&<2290;&>6085;&>3433;&<2290;You will have to come with something a bit more compelling than calling me clueless.


-DA

Your attempt at transposing Chinese script FAILED.
 
Better luck next time, bèndàn.
 
Next time, buy a clue, egg sucker. 
 
Herald
 
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DarthAmerica       1/23/2009 11:16:02 PM
Herald go take your hostility and venom someplace else. This site had so much more appeal before you came here with your vitriol and insulting tone. Anyway, I wont waste any more time on you since you in this thread don't know how to behave like an adult. Plenty of others here who actually know how to make a civil discussion in spite of disagreements on specifics.

Regards
-DA 
 
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HERALD1357    Don'ty cpomp[lainh when you are pegged to the wall.   1/23/2009 11:26:03 PM
You may not like it, but most of us now have your number, Darth.
 
I just don't waste my time being polite, beating around the bush about it.

ENDIT.
 
Herald
 
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DarthAmerica       1/23/2009 11:43:20 PM

You may not like it, but most of us now have your number, Darth.

 

I just don't waste my time being polite, beating around the bush about it.





ENDIT.

 

Herald


Like I said Herald. I'm better that this. Too bad you can't be the same. But I won't disrupt this thread like you. Learn to properly conduct yourself, then stay on topic. If you are as smart as you think you are then you should have no problem defending your points of view.

-DA 
 
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YelliChink    F China, Obama-Geithner style   1/24/2009 1:23:00 AM
online.wsj.com/article/SB123275958659212179.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
 
 
[quote]
Chinese Ministry Denies Geithner's Currency Claims
 
By IAN JOHNSON and SHEN HONG

BEIJING -- A Chinese ministry Saturday strongly denied Obama administration claims that China "manipulates" its currency, as the first contact between the new administration and China takes a markedly sour tone.

On Thursday, President Obama's nominee for Treasury secretary, Timothy Geithner, told U.S. lawmakers that President Barack Obama, "backed by the conclusions of a broad range of economists -- believes that China is manipulating its currency." No Chinese official of Mr. Geithner's standing has fired back -- a move analysts say shows that China doesn't want to overreact to the statement -- but Saturday morning an official from China's Ministry of Commerce said "we never have used currency manipulation or exchange-rate manipulation as a mains to gain an advantage in international trade." The statement, provided by an official from the ministry's news department, also said China would not "rely on devaluations" of its currency, the yuan, to promote exports.
 
[unquote]
 
It's such a genius way to start relation with commies when it's not a good time to mess things up.
 
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