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Subject: What do we do with Pakistan?
RockyMTNClimber    11/28/2008 11:04:42 AM
Pakistan is a nation now at the center of many problems. It's AlQueda's home as well as the Taliban's. Indeed the Paki intelegence services are largely credited with having invented these two murderous institutions. Although the nation of Pakistan asserts they had nothing to do with the Mumbai attacks, it is entirely possible that Pakistani based leadership and financial assistance helped make it possible. Many in Pakistan want the benefits of a western culture and economy while others are openly attempting to start a war with neighboring India and even the US (at the same time).All of this and they have nuclear weapons. What should the world do? Check Six Rocky
 
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RockyMTNClimber    Darth reply    12/15/2008 11:07:19 AM
 
Cynical? Yes I am cynical. Ignorant? Not hardly. We both know that is not the case so don't make me laugh any harder at you than I am already! I called you a star struck fan boy earlier on this thread because clearly you are extremely supportive of Obama & his adminstration. To a fault IMV. You laid out a ten point agenda that Obama & his crack staff can't seem to articulate (by the way they are pretty agreeable with a few addendums IMV). If Obama would present it as a new plan 'or doctrine perhaps'  for dealing with the Paki's then I would feel better (he might yet but I'm not holding my breath), but I am no FOO Darth. I am judging him and his team on their actions, or lack there-of, to these events not youboob clips his fans love to rerun over and over... Sound bites is all they have given US so far. 
 
You start a thread about What to do about Pakistan and in the same breath refuse to even listen to the opinion of the man who has that responsibility or those who have to carry out his instructions on the matter.< Darth
 
The topic of the thread is what should we do about Pakistan Darth. It was not: 'What should Obama do'. Your responses here were to literally post youboob clips pulled together from different times and sources, and clearly out of context to the question. How can you intelectually defend that with a straight face? Some of them were clipped from almost 2 years ago. I would strongly suggest that there was no critical thought in those answers Darth. Don't wail bias on my behalf if I call you out on that silliness, just accept it as honest constructive criticism.
 
I have every reason to be cynical of these folks and I have already explained why. I have also outlined what I would do as the answer to the original question and I encourage others to continue to contribute ideas. I will stop calling you fan boy from now on since I don't want to argue Obama on this thread as much as discuss what to do about Pakistan's thorny problems which were with US before Obama was out of diapers (in Hawaii of course...)
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
 
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DarthAmerica       12/15/2008 2:05:29 PM

 

Cynical? Yes I am cynical. Ignorant? Not hardly. We both know that is not the case so don't make me laugh any harder at you than I am already! I called you a star struck fan boy earlier on this thread because clearly you are extremely supportive of Obama & his adminstration. To a fault IMV. You laid out a ten point agenda that Obama & his crack staff can't seem to articulate (by the way they are pretty agreeable with a few addendums IMV). If Obama would present it as a new plan 'or doctrine perhaps'  for dealing with the Paki's then I would feel better (he might yet but I'm not holding my breath), but I am no FOO Darth. I am judging him and his team on their actions, or lack there-of, to these events not youboob clips his fans love to rerun over and over... Sound bites is all they have given US so far. 

 

You start a thread about What to do about Pakistan and in the same breath refuse to even listen to the opinion of the man who has that responsibility or those who have to carry out his instructions on the matter.< Darth
 

The topic of the thread is what should we do about Pakistan Darth. It was not: 'What should Obama do'. Your responses here were to literally post youboob clips pulled together from different times and sources, and clearly out of context to the question. How can you intelectually defend that with a straight face? Some of them were clipped from almost 2 years ago. I would strongly suggest that there was no critical thought in those answers Darth. Don't wail bias on my behalf if I call you out on that silliness, just accept it as honest constructive criticism.

 


I have every reason to be cynical of these folks and I have already explained why. I have also outlined what I would do as the answer to the original question and I encourage others to continue to contribute ideas. I will stop calling you fan boy from now on since I don't want to argue Obama on this thread as much as discuss what to do about Pakistan's thorny problems which were with US before Obama was out of diapers (in Hawaii of course...)

 

Check Six

 

Rocky

 

Feel free to laugh all you want because it doesn't bother me in the least. I learned the lessons I'm teaching here the hard way out there with the kind of people we are talking about. If you find that laughable then hey man that's on you. I assure you though one uninvited trip to that part of the world would be very revealing to you. Just keep in mind as we seem to be agreeing to disagree on perspective that I use the word ignorant literally and not as an insult. I just find that you and Heralds comments don't make a lot of sense against my broader and much closer perspective of things. So try not to take offense at my use of that word. Not saying you did but just in case. Unfortunately I have to add another word to describe both you and Herald on all things Obama which includes this thread topic because it is utterly silly and naive to suggest a thread called "what should WE do about Pakistan" and ignore the person who's responsibility that is simply because you don't like him. That word is "Prejudice". There just is no other way to describe your behavior and tone and I've considered this a ong time before finally deciding now that this is the time to share that opinion of your opinion.
 
You can't possibly be judging him on his actions yet as he hasn't had any opportunity to do anything in an official capacity as President. All he has done is pick a cabinet and you are judging him a failure in so many words because your politics and some of his cabinet don't agree. Thats not being objective. I am an Obama fan boy though. I'm even going to DC to witness the Inauguration. No shame whatsoever in that and I'm proud that this man has made history. However, if he performs at a substandard level I'll be the first one to post about it and criticize because I am objective. Obama got admiration and respect from me because of his race. HE EARNED my vote however through his intelligence and by the issues he ran on and his positions on those issues and because like Gen Powell I think he is the best man this country could have picked for this job. Particularly THIS JOB of finnishing the GWOT and fixing the economy. I don't always agree with who the President is, but I always give them my support after an election and I wait unti
 
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RockyMTNClimber    Darth   12/15/2008 2:25:04 PM
Your post shows how irrational you have become Darth. Quite sad to see you insinuate I am "prejudice". That term can mean allot of things. One of them is that I speak of the bamster the way I do because of his skin color. The truth is he is unimpressive, has done nothing in his life that would earn my respect and there-fore I don't swoon over him like you do. I suppose I had better have you define which one you are accusing me of because the first prejudice is fighting words with me. Your post also includes your obligatory: "Darth knows because he has been in that hemisphere" excuse. Again. I remind you I wasn't born here so don't assume I am not well traveled.
 
For the record I have given you specific reasons why my opinion is what it is with Obama. You have answered with personal attacks and now you try to lump me in with Herald. That is what people do when they can't discuss a topic like an adult, they change the subject, make up irrelevant data to support themselves, and call the dissenter names.
 
Throw your tantrum someplace else because ain't nobody buying that sh*t here son.
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
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DarthAmerica       12/15/2008 2:47:39 PM

Your post shows how irrational you have become Darth. Quite sad to see you insinuate I am "prejudice". That term can mean allot of things. One of them is that I speak of the bamster the way I do because of his skin color. The truth is he is unimpressive, has done nothing in his life that would earn my respect and there-fore I don't swoon over him like you do. I suppose I had better have you define which one you are accusing me of because the first prejudice is fighting words with me. Your post also includes your obligatory: "Darth knows because he has been in that hemisphere" excuse. Again. I remind you I wasn't born here so don't assume I am not well traveled.

 

For the record I have given you specific reasons why my opinion is what it is with Obama. You have answered with personal attacks and now you try to lump me in with Herald. That is what people do when they can't discuss a topic like an adult, they change the subject, make up irrelevant data to support themselves, and call the dissenter names.

 

Throw your tantrum someplace else because ain't nobody buying that sh*t here son.

 

Check Six

 

Rocky

First of all I'm not your son. Second, lumping you in with Herald is only because you don't have a rational basis for your discontent. Third, If I meant Prejudice the way you suggest I would have said RACIST. Notice I use English definitions of words and not implied. This is not a tantrum. Unfortunately, I'm the only adult in the room until such time as you can respond without the emotion and do this objectively and with logical reasoned analysis politics aside. Also, if what Obama has done doesn't impress you. I'd really like to see who you are impressed by. And yes, me physically going over there getting a first person view DOES MATTER. People will pay me for that experience. It would be wise to take heed to it or at least consider it even if you disagree. I have not in the least personally attacked you either and if so, post an example and I'll repent. Otherwise you should be more careful in your assumptions...
 
 
-DA

 
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RockyMTNClimber    Eye rolling time....   12/15/2008 3:07:56 PM




Your post shows how irrational you have become Darth. Quite sad to see you insinuate I am "prejudice". That term can mean allot of things. One of them is that I speak of the bamster the way I do because of his skin color. The truth is he is unimpressive, has done nothing in his life that would earn my respect and there-fore I don't swoon over him like you do. I suppose I had better have you define which one you are accusing me of because the first prejudice is fighting words with me. Your post also includes your obligatory: "Darth knows because he has been in that hemisphere" excuse. Again. I remind you I wasn't born here so don't assume I am not well traveled.



 



For the record I have given you specific reasons why my opinion is what it is with Obama. You have answered with personal attacks and now you try to lump me in with Herald. That is what people do when they can't discuss a topic like an adult, they change the subject, make up irrelevant data to support themselves, and call the dissenter names.



 



Throw your tantrum someplace else because ain't nobody buying that sh*t here son.



 



Check Six



 



Rocky




First of all I'm not your son. Second, lumping you in with Herald is only because you don't have a rational basis for your discontent. Third, If I meant Prejudice the way you suggest I would have said RACIST. Notice I use English definitions of words and not implied. This is not a tantrum. Unfortunately, I'm the only adult in the room until such time as you can respond without the emotion and do this objectively and with logical reasoned analysis politics aside. Also, if what Obama has done doesn't impress you. I'd really like to see who you are impressed by. And yes, me physically going over there getting a first person view DOES MATTER. People will pay me for that experience. It would be wise to take heed to it or at least consider it even if you disagree. I have not in the least personally attacked you either and if so, post an example and I'll repent. Otherwise you should be more careful in your assumptions... 

-DA


First, I assume nothing. I called you out and you explained yourself. Good enough. You and I seem to agree that we aren't being rational. You don't think it's rational to argue that Obama's just not done anything yet, God love him but winning an election just does not make him all that (Jimmy Carter anyone?), and I don't think there is anything rational, at all, in your examples of his greatness. We will have to leave it at that and let others judge for themselves.
 
Pakistan is a specific case where he hasn't said much since the election, with the exception of some vacant platitudes (maybe he is holding his shots for now). We will find out what he has in mind when he is finally POTUS. Hopefully we will see some of the actions you think he has in mind.
 
For now I remain skeptical of him and cynical of the crowd he has around him. With any luck, it will all work out.
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
 

 
 
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HERALD1357    For my part.   12/15/2008 3:40:55 PM
I haven't read one thing Darth posts in this thread that is not filled with data error or that did not descend into an assertion fiulled fantasy fest.
 
What makes you qualified again, Darth?
 
Oh yes, I served in Iraq. 
 
John Kerry served in Vietnam, was he qualified, or is he qualified to speak about the Cambodians or Chinese to me?
 
NO. 
 
What then makes you qualified to assert you have superior knowledge to impart to me with regards to Afghanistan or the Paks?

Nothing.
 
Reiterate-NOTHING,. 
 
Herald
 
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DarthAmerica       12/15/2008 4:08:51 PM









Your post shows how irrational you have become Darth. Quite sad to see you insinuate I am "prejudice". That term can mean allot of things. One of them is that I speak of the bamster the way I do because of his skin color. The truth is he is unimpressive, has done nothing in his life that would earn my respect and there-fore I don't swoon over him like you do. I suppose I had better have you define which one you are accusing me of because the first prejudice is fighting words with me. Your post also includes your obligatory: "Darth knows because he has been in that hemisphere" excuse. Again. I remind you I wasn't born here so don't assume I am not well traveled.







 







For the record I have given you specific reasons why my opinion is what it is with Obama. You have answered with personal attacks and now you try to lump me in with Herald. That is what people do when they can't discuss a topic like an adult, they change the subject, make up irrelevant data to support themselves, and call the dissenter names.







 







Throw your tantrum someplace else because ain't nobody buying that sh*t here son.







 







Check Six







 







Rocky










First of all I'm not your son. Second, lumping you in with Herald is only because you don't have a rational basis for your discontent. Third, If I meant Prejudice the way you suggest I would have said RACIST. Notice I use English definitions of words and not implied. This is not a tantrum. Unfortunately, I'm the only adult in the room until such time as you can respond without the emotion and do this objectively and with logical reasoned analysis politics aside. Also, if what Obama has done doesn't impress you. I'd really like to see who you are impressed by. And yes, me physically going over there getting a first person view DOES MATTER. People will pay me for that experience. It would be wise to take heed to it or at least consider it even if you disagree. I have not in the least personally attacked you either and if so, post an example and I'll repent. Otherwise you should be more careful in your assumptions... 



-DA







First, I assume nothing. I called you out and you explained yourself. Good enough. You and I seem to agree that we aren't being rational. You don't think it's rational to argue that Obama's just not done anything yet, God love him but winning an election just does not make him all that (Jimmy Carter anyone?), and I don't think there is anything rational, at all, in your examples of his greatness. We will have to leave it at that and let others judge for themselves.

 
Pakistan is a specific case where he hasn't said much since the election, with the exception of some vacant platitudes (maybe he is holding his shots for now). We will find out what he has in mind when he is finally POTUS. Hopefully we will see some of the actions you think he has in mind.


For now I remain skeptical of him and cynical of the crowd he has around him. With any luck, it will all work out.


Check Six


Rocky

Agreed. We should both simply state our positions which we have, I'm an optimist and you are a pessimist on Obama. But we both want things to work out for the best. Nothing wrong with that. For my part Rocky the details he has laid out and the cabinet choices make sense and I think it will work well for us. That's only an opinion of course. But I think the potential is definitely there whether it works or not.
 
Pakistan must be decisively dealt with during this administration. Things will only get worse otherwise. I don't see how thats going to happen without at least some form of large scale combat betwee
 
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RockyMTNClimber    An interesting interview with a former Taliban prisoner...   12/15/2008 4:37:16 PM
They are still plotting against US:
ht***tp://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2008/12/06/2008-12-06_journalist_sean_langan_tells_of_life_in_.html
For a harrowing three months as a Taliban prisoner in a Pakistani terror camp, journalist Sean Langan lived face to face with sociopaths threatening to behead him as they plotted against the West.

Langan, 44, miraculously walked out of the lawless tribal belt near Afghanistan in June - an area thick with armed Arab fighters - having absorbed an encyclopedic knowledge of jihadi tactics, resources and intent.

"The world's leading terrorists are there - safe, and with the time to plot and plan attacks," Langan told the Daily News in his first U.S. interview.

Now he's warning President-elect Barack Obama of the "clear and present danger" of another Sept. 11 hatched in Pakistan.

"If another 9/11 happens, it'll be by the same perpetrators of the greatest attack in history," he said. "It's a race against time."

The threat posed by the extremists there is not surprising.

What shocked him, however, was the total indifference to human life shown by his captors. Their own children were as expendable as bullets in an AK-47.

The veteran filmmaker, whose daring war documentaries play on the BBC and in theaters, sneaked into Pakistan last spring to interview top Taliban "Khalifa" Siraj Haqqani and Al Qaeda No. 2 Ayman al-Zawahiri. He was going to ask Osama Bin Laden's deputy if they had a nuclear bomb.

But he never got the chance.

Langan was instead taken hostage. A letter on Haqqani's stationary accused him of spying, which the journalist said typically means "you're dead."

Thrown into a tiny blacked-out room with his terrified Afghan translator, they were rattled by the constant chattering of machine guns, mortars and grenades around the house that served as a jail. Overhead, they often heard the steady hum of U.S. Predator drones.

"I was in a valley surrounded by training camps, bases and caves. Arabs were having meetings there - Al Qaeda - making plans," Langan recalled.

One extremist bluntly explained, "We are meeting and discussing global jihad issues."

Terror plots since 9/11 in Britain, Spain and India have been traced to Pakistan's tribal areas, the source of most current terror threats, according to the CIA and a federal terror commission.

Langan heard an ex-Pakistani minister on the BBC one day denying Al Qaeda operated camps inside the country.

"I had to turn up the radio to hear his denial over the sound of gunfire from all the training camps," Langan said, grinning.

During interrogation, they demanded he identify his young sons - an infuriating attempt "to bring innocence and light into a dark, corrupted world," he said.

Fearing a beheading, he revealed one son's name is Gabriel, as in the archangel, and one of the holiest names in Islam.

The Taliban wept - and Haqqani sent a letter of apology.

A teary-eyed interrogator threw his arm around Langan and showed him a young boy's photo on his cell phone.

A father-to-father moment?

Hardly. The next photo showed the bomb-strapped kid blowing up a U.S. Humvee.

"I'm looking at him like, you're a sociopath," Langan said.

Questioning him about Western decadence, a clueless Taliban asked if "your women can marry animals - e

 
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