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Subject: The Empire strikes back - Russia going West
FT_Italy    9/20/2008 5:26:57 AM
Here the Russian plan to go back at least to 1939 western border, including the partition in 3 parts of Ukraine (East, Crimea and Odessa to be directly annexed; Central, to become a satellite then be "united" to Russia as Belarus; West, the one that could stay free): http://temi.repubblica.it/limes/alla-riconquista-di-un-impero-2/
 
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gf0012-aust       10/27/2008 7:38:12 AM

Will Russia accept its financial fate, or will she "come to us" to take the money she needs?

Russia believed it was strong enough to mock Europe over Georgia with respect to needing oil and gas over moral principle - so why should anyone lift a finger for the russian economy?
 
Putin played his hand (up the backside of Medvedev) - let the Russians stew in their own oil and gas and see how much of an ace that they had.
 
For all the froth and bubble generated by the "Russia Strong" brigade - the Russian economy is probably the most fragile of all the G20 equiv partners.
 
To paraphrase marie antoinette - let them eat cake.
 
 
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The Lizard King    Russia & Europe   10/27/2008 9:39:19 AM
How is it that Russia has Europe / Europeans so trained?  Whenever an issue involves the Russians emerges, the first response from Europeans is we can not upset Russia.  Is it because Europe is so dependant on Russia as an energy source?
 
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FT_Italy       10/27/2008 5:19:50 PM
Nasty, the things you say are the same not only in all NATO, but in all the World...every country can mobilise all its male workforce during war, but you do not consider:
- time of mobilisation;
- building up of a so large organisation;
- training or re-training men (men who served for 1-2 years have to be trained once more for many things, men who served for a few days are almost as never trained);
- political will.
And other minor things.
Those 10millions men are the same of Mussolini's "8millions bayonets" in 1939, or even less effective: I have never seen many para-military and pre-military camps through Central and Western Europe, nor in Germany...I know even Russian military organisation is, now, just on the paper, but at least they really train and mobilise many men (young ones above all, not just 40-50 years old former conscripts).
 
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FT_Italy       10/27/2008 5:30:17 PM

How is it that Russia has Europe / Europeans so trained?  Whenever an issue involves the Russians emerges, the first response from Europeans is we can not upset Russia.  Is it because Europe is so dependant on Russia as an energy source?


Not just energy needing: it is important, but it is not all. In the worst case, we could anyway go and conquest it (if Russia is defeated).
In this forum, it seems to me, there is a dangerous blindness about political positions on war in Europe: no government, no party, would ever support a large-scale war, out of Poland and UK, as demonstrated on e.g. Iraq. There is no political will to contrast Russia, to expand military spendings nor to defend little "useless" countries: we are made cowards by our old average age and our moral corruption, no one want to sacrifice for great things, and absolutely not for little things as the indipendence of some far minor state. I think we are much more near to the society and politics of France 1940 than to a supposed "crusade" against the Eastern invaders: likely, if Russia moves west, many European countries would mobilise just when Russian forces are getting close to their borders...just too late.
 
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