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Subject: France ends role as Superpower??
Le Zookeeper    7/15/2008 12:18:09 AM
As one of the big 5 France was a superpower for a while, but no Rafale sales, Iran nukes, etc and it seems to that France is no longer a power. Last customer for Rafale -India seems to go to F-18? Is it finally over for France as superpower??
 
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displacedjim       7/18/2008 6:46:10 AM
Herc, you're better off not responding; that way you won't look as silly.
 
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FJV    Maybe this book will give a more accurate answer?   7/18/2008 2:09:44 PM
Title:        The rise and fall of the great powers
Author:     Paul Kennedy
ISBN:       0-00-686052-4
 
 

 
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Le Zookeeper    Displaced   7/19/2008 1:16:48 AM

Herc, you're better off not responding; that way you won't look as silly.


Me silly???? Plz? PS I am moving???  to Sioux Falls maybe we grab some drinks.
 
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jastayme3       7/19/2008 3:47:56 PM

As one of the big 5 France was a superpower for a while, but no Rafale sales, Iran nukes, etc and it seems to that France is no longer a power. Last customer for Rafale -India seems to go to F-18?
Is it finally over for France as superpower??

Rafale sales? Is the talent of France's merchants of death supposed to be a
measure of it's La Glorie? How the mighty have fallen!
But to answer, France ceased to be a superpower in 1815. It ceased to be a Great Power
in 1940.
And so what? There are more important things in life.
 
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Ezekiel    cheese, wine and chadors   7/31/2008 3:16:37 PM
France a super power???
 
Not even close, it can only play the role of spoiler as they shown so brilliantly with Iraq and its foreign policy vis a vis NATO commitments and gaullist tradition.
 
They have a hard enough time dealing with its own domestic population (6-8 million and growing Mahammadeans) let alone influence foreign ones.
 


 
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Herald12345       7/31/2008 4:41:20 PM





Well British Lion, sorry, I'm not really a chauvinist, but let's be honest...a significant portion of Britain's tank force was AMERICAN, had it not been for AMERICAN tank deliveries in 1942 Britain might have lost it's Middle East position, I'd bet that a majority of the Combat Aircraft in Britain, after Jan 1944 were AMERICAN, certainly approximately 60% of the Combat Power on the Continent 1944-45 was AMERICAN (by that I mean US forces)....If it had not been for America Britain would have quite possibly lost the war....Not be conquered by the Germans, after the Battle of Britain and then June 1941 not really a possibility, but Britain would have lost its oil and would have been in a position wherein it could not possibly defeat Germany, and so it would have been left with the alternatives of continuing a hopeless fight or seeking an accommodation with Germany.


 



Thank you for standing up to Hitler and holding the line from May 1940 until June 1941, over a year.  Thank you for Churchill.  But the ONLY reason Britain won the war and the only reason France isn't a province of the


Dritte Reich is the efforts of the United States.  It may be painful for Brit's to hear, yes we ought to have stood up sooner, yes we let you get dreadfully beat down, yada yada yada, but in the end only the US had the industrial and financial resources necessary to defeat the Germans, and Britain was going to be a poor, damaged, and indebted nation in 1945 whether or no the US entered the war in 1941 or 1940.






 



Bottom-Line: Remove the US from EITHER World War and Germany prospers, relatively or absolutely, it was the US entry that was DECISIVE to Germany's defeat in both cases. 






Remove Britain or Russia and you lose WW2 also. Remove Britain or France from WW1 and that one's lost. I don't see your point. I'm not dismissing America's contribution or arguing who contributed more. All I'm saying is that it was a JOINT effort, with all 3 nations pulling their weight and winning the war. Belittling one nations contribution is not a good way to make friends.

 


Take for instance when you say  " it was the US entry that was DECISIVE to Germany's defeat in both cases." That seems to imply that you believe Britain and France's contribution to WW1 was somehow less than America's. I know you wouldn't be silly enough to actually believe something that laughable, which is why I'm giving you the benafit of the doubt, and telling you that that is how statements like that come across. And also how jolly ol' flame wars begin. 

 

We all did our part. Leave it at that.

 

B.L. 


 



Ugh! BL you are dead on. Lose one of the Big Three in WW II and we lose the whole war.  Its sort of like the argument I make, that if you take the Australians and the New Zealanders out of the Great Pacific War that the US faces at best stalemate and very likely defeat in the Pacific, and without Britain and India, we lose in SE Asia.
 
Anyway, I doubt that we can even dismiss French contributions in 1943-1945. There were not as many because of the 1940 defeat, but they, the Free French were there just the same, and they took care of their assigned Germans, just like the rest of the allies did.
 
I honestly believe that I can make a case that the outcome was that close, that we needed everybody.......e.v.e.r.y.......b.o.d.y.... we could get on our side.
 
Herald
 
 
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Herald12345    Crap.    7/31/2008 10:04:29 PM



Are you Herc the Merc?






That would be Le Merc, but who is Herc le merc anyways???? some historical figure on this board??? u claim i am the nxt avatar???
I see that the HtJ has returned.

Herald
 
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Herald12345    Crap.    7/31/2008 11:57:46 PM



Are you Herc the Merc?






That would be Le Merc, but who is Herc le merc anyways???? some historical figure on this board??? u claim i am the nxt avatar???
I see that the HtJ has returned.

Herald
 
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verdunjp    Come on!   8/5/2008 8:45:56 PM

Look at France's recent history:

-After the Hundred Years Wars, up until 1900, Britain dominated, not France.


-In the 1900's France was invaded TWICE.


-In the current century, France does not have her own currency and she gives up her sovereignty to the European Union.

 

 

 


That comment shows a very low knowledge of french history.
 
France won the 100 years war. Became THE dominant power at the beginning of the 17th century under Louis XIV. Rules Europes till 1815. Regained her power at the middle of the 19yh century with his Empire. Became friend with Great Britain at the same time. (Crimean war). Rules Europe with GB (Entente cordiale) till the great war. Won the first world war. (France: 6 millions casualties, GB: 3 millions casualties, Italy: 2 millions casualties, USA 350 000 casualties) Lost her power at the beginning of the second WW. Fast recovery, (thanks to the allies). Rejoined the major powers after that.

 
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Rodrigo       9/15/2008 4:49:44 PM

As one of the big 5 France was a superpower for a while, but no Rafale sales, Iran nukes, etc and it seems to that France is no longer a power. Last customer for Rafale -India seems to go to F-18?
Is it finally over for France as superpower??

So, if France ceased to be a Superpower, who r the 4 left.
 
I think you have been living in a different dimension or planet. As far as I remember there were only 2 superpowers in the last half of the XX century, and one in the last decade and a half. This debate is as absurd as it gets.
 
 
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