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Subject: America's Worst Enemy in History
mongyu    1/2/2008 8:16:10 AM
The title says it all: Who do you think has been the greatest enemy ever to threaten America? My vote goes to the British hands down. No other country ever came as close as the British to physically ending the United States in our history. The Germans and the Japanese were formidable in their own right, but neither [or even both] could reasonably invade the United States. The Soviet Union had the theoretical potential to destroy the United States, but I think everyone agrees that this was not a practical capability in the way the British Empire's ability to take Washington DC was. The Soviets were a dangerous enemy ideologically in the way it could convert adherents in America, but they never out-did the British who successfully supported a rebellion in the United States by funding, arming, and giving moral support to the Confederacy. So what country would you choose?
 
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Ehran       1/4/2008 12:14:07 PM
Back on topic. If you can't project power into your enemy's vital terrain, [the Ohio River Valley in 1820] and your enemy can do the converse [The Saint Lawrence River Valley in 1820] then you are finished.
 
the usa tried to project power into the st lawrence valley from 1812-15 with results ranging from poor to dismal against a britain that was largely ignoring the fighting.  what on earth would make you think the results would be any much better 5 short years later against the focussed attention of the british empire?
 
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Herald12345       1/4/2008 12:14:30 PM
Per capita means product per human per year measured in labor dollars.

Didn't you learn anything, Ehran?

If there is no data for Britain, that means it either didn't crack the top twenty five, or there is no data.

TAKE YOUR PICK.

Herald

 
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Herald12345       1/4/2008 12:17:23 PM



the american colonies were doing quite well and per capita were actually richer than the british themselves.  i would suggest this wasn't going to be all that helpful to the revolutionaries though because most of that wealth was under british control especially during the early part of the war.  look to where the stands of muskets came from along with much of the powder and shot that equipped the continental army.  where did the cannon come from by and large?  the gold to pay the continental army?



From Holland and Spain initially actually. Who taught you history? Read Ben Franklin's papers. Before Saratoga, the French gave bluster, Lafayette, and provided some credit, but it was the Spanish who came across with smuggled material before then, and the Dutch who arranged the initial banking. The French were in a wait and see mode.


Herald


according to the link tercio posted the french king committed a million livres 6 weeks after the declaration of independance.  that's rather heavy duty for bluster don't you think? 

A line of credit, cretin. A LINE  OF CREDIT.  The  Spanish put their bodies and their wealth on the line.

And the Dutch fronted cash as well.

Herald

 
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RockyMTNClimber    Beazz reply   1/4/2008 12:18:18 PM
 
I don't mean to serve a rosey scenario in a half full cup. We do need to continue to be vigilant and report things that are outside of the envelope of normality. Pilots and mere mortals both. I agree with one gripe you have about student pilots in US. They should speak English when they get here. It is a nervous thing to announce yourself on down-wind and get a gibberish reply from the plane in front of you. He could be declaring an emergency or ordering a pizza and there is no way to tell. Scarey stuff in a unforgiving environment.
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
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Herald12345       1/4/2008 12:20:07 PM

Back on topic. If you can't project power into your enemy's vital terrain, [the Ohio River Valley in 1820] and your enemy can do the converse [The Saint Lawrence River Valley in 1820] then you are finished.

 

the usa tried to project power into the st lawrence valley from 1812-15 with results ranging from poor to dismal against a britain that was largely ignoring the fighting.  what on earth would make you think the results would be any much better 5 short years later against the focussed attention of the british empire?

Andrew Jackson; nimrod. Leadership matters. He hated the British enough to get it done.

Herald

 
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anuts       1/4/2008 1:08:43 PM
  it's quite eyeopening to look at the costs the french incurred and yet american history hardly mentions them.



Oh. My. Lord.
 
Did I read the above correctly? Does it say what I think it says? That is truly amazing.
 
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Beazz    Rocky   1/4/2008 2:56:29 PM
LOL.. finally someone who understands ;-) Personally I think ya should be born and bread American or ya can't even fly here in the States ;-) Let SA train their own suicide jockeys ;-)
 
Beazz
 
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SA!"£$    HERALD U R WRONG.   1/5/2008 9:16:33 PM
Herald wat the hell are you on!! please put us out of our misery and admit that you are wrong at this point and stop trollling on this discussion. UK not listed on top 25 countries when comparing GDP LOL wat a larrf obviously missed out you plonk!!  If you click on the map version of the "Interesting Data" you YORSELF quote you will see the UK is marked with "no data" you moron. UK may not be top on its own but even without the Empire is considerably higher than the US in 1820 ( US GDP at 1.8% and GB GDP at 5.2) and only by 1880 odd does the US surpass Great Britain (Excluding Empire). Just for arguments sake and to make you look like the pleb that you are; from 1820-1920 the British Empire was generating from between 20-25% of the worlds wealth, while the US in 1820 was generating less than 2%.
 
Those numbers speak for themselves. 
 
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longrifle       1/5/2008 10:45:18 PM
The greatest enemy ever faced by the United States of America was the Confederate States of America:

- no enemy before or since has ever been more tenacious or harder for the USA to defeat;
 
- no enemy before or since have ever been such true believers in the reasons for which they fought;
 
- no enemy before or since has ever taken such a brutal toll on the USA physically, spiritually, emotionally, or logistically;
 
- no enemy before or since ever remained as undefeated spiritually and emotionally after being defeated physically and logistically;

- no enemy before or since has ever had so many of their descendants believe so strongly in their ancestors basic nobility, honor, and essential goodness whether they agree with their ancestors actions or not.

The greatest enemy ever faced by the United States of America was the Confederate States of America.






 
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farscape       1/5/2008 11:33:47 PM
It would be more useful if you source your data, SA!... 
     From the book that Herald was citing, Maddison's"The World Economy: Historical Statistics", in 1820, the U.S. had slightly less than a 10% share of world GDP and 37.5% of the British (sans empire) GDP at that time. In 1850, the U.S. had  70.2% of British GDP and by 1870 had achieved parity. The U.S. had reached economic parity with the British Empire as a whole by 1912-13. Much of this from:  http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/6205/1/MPRA_paper_6205.pdf  since I don't have Maddison on hand. 





 
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