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Subject: Tele-presence Combat
sanman    7/15/2004 3:38:25 PM
Hmm, this might become one of my favorite discussion boards... I recently saw the preview for the movie "I,Robot" starring Wil Smith, and it spurred me to think that an anthropomorphic remote-controlled robot platform would be a useful advancement in military and security applications. Likewise, NASA is developing humanoid-looking robot telemanipulators to do the jobs that astronauts might do on spacewalks. The idea here would be to have a remotely-controlled robot with a humanoid shape, capable of moving like a human being, and therefore capable of travelling anywhere a human being can go, beyond the reach of conventional vehicles. Mountain warfare, forrests, jungles, swamps, urban patrols of alleyways, raids into buildings/houses, tunnels, caves, etc. The type of remote control would be "telepresence", whereby the robot drone is sending full video,audio,tactile feedback to the pilot, sufficiently rich and immersive so that the pilot would feel like he/she is right there. The benefit of having this humanoid type of drone, is that you could use it in place of a regular soldier in situations where there is higher risk. For example, you could airdrop it into an enemy-infested area to reconnoitre it, while the tele-operator/pilot would be a safe distance away from the frontline or danger area. We often hear of soldiers being killed or maimed by boobytraps or Improvised Explosive Devices -- IED is now a familiar acronym, unfortunately. Such weapons are now becoming the tools of choice for guerrilla/terrorist militants, since these are percieved as more effective against conventional armies. A remote-controlled soldier might be a way to make IEDs and boobytraps obsolete, especially if it were mass-produced cheaply. Now that we are living in the broadband information age, I would imagine that telepresence is a realistically achievable technology. Likewise, I think that robotics technology is advancing to the point where a humanoid or anthromorphically articulated robot could be built, having an arrangement of joints similar to a human being. A robot would be more physically rugged than the fragile flesh and blood of a human being, and could withstand more punishment or harsh environments. It would not need to be fed, only re-fuelled (food spoils, while fuel doesn't). It would not succumb to disease or fatigue, and could withstand NBC (nuclear/biological/chemical) environments. It could also be stronger, faster, capable of leaping farther, and have more endurance. It could be powered by a fuel cell, which could be detonated to destroy the drone to avoid capture, or even to destroy a target. The robot would not have to wear all the extra protective gear that a human being does. It wouldn't require army medics -- you would simply remove and replace damaged parts, or just scrap the whole thing, and have the pilot login to a new one, ready for action. No worries about a robot being captured, since you could blow it up. Likewise, if your artillery or airforce needs to bombard the area where the drone is, you can sacrifice the robot, unlike with a human scout. Key to successful telepresence immersion, would be to give the pilot the sense of orientation and balance for the robot. A gyroscope could measure the balance, other sensors providing the orientation of the limbs, etc. These would have to be transmitted to the nervous system of the remote pilot. Perhaps the pilot could be surgically fitted with some kind of input jack, that would allow a direct feed to the nervous system, or if that's too extreme perhaps external electrodes could achieve something similar. Perhaps the jack or electrodes could be used for output too, to enable the operator to control the drone thru neural control. Otherwise, the operator would have to rely upon a haptic interface for control. An ideal interface would not require the tele-operator to move their own limbs, so as to avoid fatigue to the pilot. If such a neural interface was possible, you could have your pilot lying on a couch wearing VR goggles, and not really moving a muscle. This could be good for extended missions. The robot could have armaments built in, or it could use conventional armaments because of its humanoid shape. Built-in firearms could be mounted on the head, to allow look-and-shoot ability for the tele-operator. A real soldier whose life is under direct threat will naturally experience panic and other disorienting emotions. But a tele-operator who is safely away from direct harm may keep a clearer mind during the thick of the action. Comments?
 
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sanman    Stick-Man Combat Drone   7/17/2004 11:35:20 AM
So I was just further developing this idea in my head, of this combat drone that could move through all the places human beings can go. So I was thinking that it would look something like a matchstick figure man. Its thinner profile would present a harder target to spot and hit. It would also correspond to lower weight, for reduced power consumption. Or for less possibility of triggering a pressure-sensitive landmine. It might be about 5 feet in height. The legs would be disproportionately long, taking up two-thirds of its height. The knees would be reversed, pointing backwards like on hind legs or ostrich legs (or are those just very high ankles?). This would enable superior sprinting and leaping ability. It would be able to leap cricket-style -- even from a standstill, it should be able to jump a distance of several meters. (Heh, "Jiminy Cricket", "Jumpin' Jiminy", or just "SlimJim") ;) The head would mainly consist of a couple of camera eyes with a gun barrel in between. In this way, your tele-operator would have true look-and-shoot capability, so that anything his camera eyes see could be immediately fired at with the nose-gun. The fuel cell power pack and main electronics would be in the torso, with communications package in the upper rear of the torso or in the head. It would have stick arms with elbows and simple 3-fingered hands/claws, to balance itself or pick itself off the ground if it fell. The hands/claws could also pick up or hold objects, and hang onto structures. They might even be able to operate conventional firearms. In nature, we see bugs like the praying mantis and others, which can look indistinguishable from a twig or grassblade. (Hmm, other possible name candidates -- "Mantis"? "Blade"?) (Man-agile Tactical Interdiction Scout?, Bipedal Locomotive Agility DronE?) So like those insects, the Stick-Man would be much more difficult to pick out and identify than a human being, particularly in a wooded environment. As a machine, it could made to go perfectly still or prone for days -- far longer than a human being could. The drone would be remotely operated by telepresence -- I/O broadband audio-visual-tactile feedback sufficiently rich and immersive to make the tele-operator feel they were right there on scene. The tele-operator would be guiding all movements and reflexes for the Stick-Man in realtime, and there would be no AI locally controlling any movement. The exception might be for the leaping -- a range-finder mounted on the nose-gun would allow the operator to range any target in sight, so that the leaping power required to reach there would be computed for immediate action. So not just Look-and-Shoot capability, but also Look-and-Leap capability. Comments anyone?
 
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sanman    RE:Tele-presence Combat   7/17/2004 1:57:24 PM
Here's a picture of NASA's Robonaut telemanipulator, a practical example of an android design: http://www.space.com/imageoftheday/image_of_day_040716.html
 
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doggtag    RE:Stick-Man Combat Drone   7/17/2004 2:28:20 PM
Build yourself a battle droid. Spindly little collapsible combat units. Give them autonomny like the AMEE unit in Red Planet (check out http://redplanetmovie.warnerbros.com/cmp/redplanet.html and click the third button on the top row to get "AMEE, the making of" info). The biggest problem we have, even with the current ASIMO systems and other limited AI humanoid 'bots, is that their power sources just don't last long enough. But ideally, sure: 30-40 years out, we could do it (considering the growth in computing power and software capabilities in the last 10 years alone). But just like in your I ROBOT movie, give them too much AI, and you might not keep control. There was the debate over Data in Star Trek: Next Gen about what happens when a "race" of AI androids/robots startsd demanding equal rights. An interesting point when you combat "slaves" get smart enough to ask, "why do we have to do your dirty work?" Most likely, it will be within the next half century we will see it..
 
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sanman    RE:Stick-Man Combat Drone   7/19/2004 12:17:41 PM
Yeah, but this thing would be a remotely piloted drone -- and RPV that happens to be shaped like a person. I really don't see a need for there to be any AI in this thing at all, just as you don't need it for a Predator. It would use "telepresence" -- basically a broadband link that provides detailed immersive feedback to the pilot, to make them feel like they're right there in the drone. AI is too problematic and buggy, and unlikely to be a match for wily human beings. So it would be better to have a human tele-operator piloting the thing. Again, think of an RPV like the Predator, and don't think of the Terminator or Data from Star Trek. This remote-controlled drone would happen to have a humanoid shape, but there's no reason why it would need to have its own brain.
 
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doggtag    RE:Stick-Man Combat Drone   7/19/2004 6:42:02 PM
Technically, battle droids WERE telepresence operated: from the "master control program" running in the orbitting droid control ship. But there again, sabotage and espionage can compromise your networks. The internet still from time to time creates another hacker capable of crashing "secure" systems. It would be horrible for an army of remote soldiers to be suddenly taken over by enemy hackers..
 
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sanman    RE:Stick-Man Combat Drone   7/20/2004 12:33:07 PM
That's a good point -- perhaps there should be some kind of quantum encryption key setup, to avoid any type of hacking. After all, the US military, along with contractors such as Boeing, is already making steps towards achieving a networked battlefield. The idea behind network battlefield warfare is that you could have massive coordination of fire control and movement, done in realtime.
 
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sanman    TFSO Fuel Cells, Glassy Steel   7/23/2004 7:15:24 PM
Here are some interesting links to some technologies that would make the Stick-Man drone possible: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-07/uoh-fc072204.php So this type of compact energy source could be used to power the "Stick-Man" scout drone I was talking about. Once again, the "Stick-Man" would be a bipedal drone that looks something like a matchstick man. The drone would be remotely controlled through "telepresence", which would be a broadband video/audio/tactile feedback link sufficiently rich and immersive to make the tele-operator think they were right there. A compact fuel cell power source like the Thin-Film SOFC would be used to power the drone, allowing it to go anywhere and everywhere that a human being can go -- beyond the reach of conventional vehicles. Into tunnels, trenches, foxholes, swamps, jungles, caves, interiors of buildings, up mountains, etc. The head would have 2 camera eyes for stereoscopic vision, and a gun-barrel mounted in between for look-and-shoot capability. The drone could be made out of new high-strength materials like Glass Steel: http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031776806668&path=!news&s=1045855934842 The highly elastic tensile nature of the amorphous steel could allow for good leaping ability with lower energy loss from metal deformation. A thin light-weight "Stick-Man" design would present a thinner target profile, as well as lighter weight for reducing the energy consumption required for movement. The "Stick-Man" scout would be more expendable as compared to losing human beings to Improvised Explosive Devices and other boobytraps. Comments on the practicality of this?
 
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doggtag    Super alloy tech   7/23/2004 8:48:43 PM
I personally don't see any discovery of the favored element called "unobtainium". Most likely, it will be breakthroughs in alloys created by supercomputers, and even good old fashioned lab mixing. Amorphous metals (metallic glass) are a promising area, as are conductive polymers. Here's another one for you: Popular Science magazine, August 2004 ( "Army Tech vs Street Tech" is on the cover), on page 36, is an article about "Metal Rubber". http://www.nanosonic.com/ NanoSonic is the group who invented it. I believe that such advances as these will be the materials of the future. These metal rubbers could effectively create artificial musculature, tendons, ligaments, etc. Coupled with other electro-flexive materials, these could prove very valuable in designing future mechanisms for a variety of tasks..
 
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sanman    RE:Super alloy tech   7/26/2004 2:57:20 PM
Yeah, I agree -- I posted on the sci.military-moderated newsgroup about the 'artificial muscle' thru electroactive polymers or even nanotubes, and we had a discussion thread going. In a way, it could change warfare and industry perhaps just like the wheel did. A disruptive technology. Other interesting disruptive technologies for warfare -- quantum nucleonic energy systems (gamma-ray lasers and high energy density storage), electric stun laser weapons (using a lightbeam like a taser wire), and active camouflage (OLED plastics) http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996014
 
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