us military needs mass quantities of vehicles to move around in,otherwise theyre not very mobile.u cant build a vehicle in those numbers with adequate protection and be able to afford it.id rather be in a hummer than a jeep.

This alleged bad reputation for the Hummer in Iraq is grossly overblown. One also has to remember that Hummer's for the most part are not fighting vehicles - at least the ones being attacked in Iraq aren't. They are mostly being used by rear-echelon support troops for utility and transport roles. Like any soft-skinned truck they are vulnerable to ambush. You just hear about Hummers more because there are so many of them compared to say, Land Rovers.

If the brits were using hummers and the US using land Rovers, we'd be wondering if the land rovers are death traps. Its a question of approach, not vehicles.

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Hacks%20Target%20Homepage.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=70&rnd=265.4873954832687 Use armour in Iraq like M113A-3 ACAVs!!! Keep the Humvees as trucks, not combat patrol vehicles! HUmmers are actually stable vehicles but the bolt on armour is altering their center of gravity, making them easy to topple when driving over rough areas.

Some M-113s would be good, but Hummvees are needed for many tasks. The M-113 can't keep up with supply convoys moving along highways, plus it requires a lot more aminteanace. Also, Hummvees are faster and more agile. The M-113 would be useful in a place like Falluja though, you could use them to carry infantry as well as provide close up fire support.

...is one mainly of doctrine, although I do not like the "Shinseki tanks" myself. The Brits do have an equivalent, but in the role Hummers are used for they use armored cars, like the Scorpion, probably because of their experiences in British Ireland. The Hummer simply is too light to be used for convoy escort, and too heavy to be used efficiently as a utility vehicle. The weight makes it slow and unmaneuverable - and I remember seeing, in Bosnia, one of them with a front wheel that actually broke off from the extra armour weight. This isn't Rumsfeld's fault. It's the residue of Shinseki's failed ideas on 21st century warfare.

The fault lies with taking a 80s vintage utility vehicle and using it as a general purpose frontline combat vehicle. The Hummvee can succeed at low intensity warfare, it would take heavy modification and redesign though.

ROFLMFAO. there is no rear echelon in Iraq. The britts arent getting shot up like we are in the South and what a ridiculous statement "The HMMWV can succeed at low intensity warfare, it would take heavy modifaction and redesign though"...BWUHAHAHA dont you realize youre making a new vehicle? M113 SUCKS you get more protection in an up-armored HMMWV than an M113 with more mobility. yah you'll have a helluva time in an uparmored HMMWV but if youre out on the country side its gonna be conventional war and youre gonna be using Abrams and Bradleys + there will be a rear echelon. so you wont need them in that scenario lol.

The main thing you have to improve is the drivetrain. Bigger engine, better brakes, and stronger suspension are needed to handle the load of the extra armor. You'd also need a turrent of some kind, this allows to fire your weapons without exposing yourself to enemy fire. Finally, fit some kind of active RPG protective system to intercept them before they hit the armor, the ballistic plates will stop rifle and MG rounds, and spall liners, better seats and restraints will improve protection for mines and IEDs. Now you have a better vehicle, not a new one.

DrCruel hit it right on the head. HMMVs have been receiving bad publicity lately because like it or not, they are being used as combat vehicles on a very regular basis. This is a mistake. Half of the lives lost in Iraq could have been prevented by moving troops from wheeled vehicles like Hummers and Strykers into M113A3 uparmored, upengined tracked vehicles with RPG bird cages. Shinseki wanted to turn the military literally into an all wheeled force, including tanks, which is probably why we canned 500 M113s and brought in less then useless Strykers which can be rendered immobile deathtraps by a gasoline soaked sock and a match. We need guntrucks and Panhard-VBR class vehicles (there are plenty of them, trust me) for convoy escort, but as someone said before, there are no front lines. Bring back the Sheridan and M113 en-masse so we can win this war with as few casualties as possible. Make the Israelis lend us their super-updated and improved M60 tanks. I keep trying to find a role for the Hummer, and the only thing I can think of is stateside disaster relief and base operations. Its not even suitable for foreign peacekeeping operations...