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Subject: Good base 1911 for custom work?
buzzard    3/4/2008 2:07:28 PM
After having much trouble finding anything in the way of customizing equipment for my P220, I've decided I might as well go with the flow and get myself a full sized 1911 to custom up. What would you folks recommend for a baseline?
 
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Horsesoldier       3/8/2008 11:59:15 AM
 


For example, I checked the waiting period just a couple of weeks ago for Clark's, Novak, and C&S for some relatively simple mods (nothing more than an action job, Bar-sto barrel, and gold bead sights) on a newly purchased Series 70. A six month wait by any of the good 1911 smiths would be considered a rush order. It's running more like 12-18 months on average.

+1.  I have a High Power I sent off to C&S for some custom work, and total time was about ten months (seven on wait list from start of order, then about three shipped off to them for the work).  Very, very happy with the finished product -- and went with them because they were quicker than Yost-Bonitz (12 month minimum, with pistol with them the whole time), but custom pistol packages are definitely not for the impatient or those afflicted with ADD.
 
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RockyMTNClimber    1911 question   3/8/2008 1:33:14 PM
 
What do you guys think about a Springfield Mil-Spec v. Taurus 1911? I'm looking for an out of the box shooter for practical shooting competitions in a stock catagory. Up until now I have been using my Glock or my XD but I'd like to move over to a 1911 for competitive shooting. I'm probably not going to do any other work on the one I buy and those two are priced right next to each other locally. I have limited 1911 experience.
 
What do you think Norm? Horsesoldier? peanut gallery?
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
 
 
 
 
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YelliChink       3/8/2008 3:30:17 PM

I don't think Norincos bad reputation is fully deserved.  For instance their M14's are made on the machinery the US sold Taiwan (who then sold it to the mainland).  The wood finish and the likes may not be so good, but the weapon itself should be fine, and I have heard good things about them.  I don't know what machinery they use on their 1911's, but I have heard a lot more good than bad.



How many times I have to say that ROC 205th Arsenal destroyed ALL THEIR M14 MACHINERY and migrated to produce T65. Norico actually reverse engineered captured M14 from Vietnam. There's some difference between Norico M14, Taiwan T57 and US-made M14s. The Polytech (Norico) bolt is longer than standard for some reason.
 
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ChdNorm       3/8/2008 6:26:18 PM
Yimmy,
If minor little things like excessive headspace, endshake, soft barrels eaten alive by hard slides, Rough breech faces and ramps, weak extractors that are sprung in a couple of hundred rounds, stretched links due to misaligned lower lugs, etc., then by all means ... run out and grab a Norinco.  Just be prepared to spend more on replacement parts to bring it into spec than it'll ever be worth.
 
And their M-14s? A whole cottage industry sprouted up the day after the first shipment arrived. Armscorps built their entire company on trying to get them to function for people. Mostly it involved a complete disassembly of the Norinico and replacing every part but the buttplate screws and sling swivels with surplus USGI parts .... those that would fit anyway. Those that got stuck with out of spec operating rods were screwed, as USGI op rods couldn't even be made to fit.  For the most part it's the same kind of issues as their 1911s, with the additional excitement of their soft receivers blowing smooth up on occasion.
 
You get what you pay for.
 
Horsesolder,
I got on the waiting list for Clark's. I'm not doing anything tactical with this one at all, more of a retro sleeper than anything. A jeweled hood and hammer, gold bead sights, and stag grips kind of thing. I figured that would be more up Clark's alley. More than anything, I want an extremely accurate Gov't model that can still be carried. I think it's got Yaqui slide written all over it. I'll let you know how it turns out in about a year and a half!
 
I sent off a 686 to C&S about five years ago that I will probably have buried with me. They did a DAO conversion that is one of the slickest defense weight trigger pulls I've ever seen in my life. The quality and workmanship jumps out at you in everything they do. It's really evident in simple things like chamfering charge holes or deburring the hammer that some smiths will rush thru. I've heard they do great jobs on Brownings, but when I eventually get around to finishing my Hi-Power project I really want it to go to Novak's. His Brownings are absolute works of art.
 
Rocky,
Personally, I'd go with a Springfield if you want the most bang for your buck for any 1911 under a $1,000. To me, the Springfields are a known entity with a proven track record. Their customer service is second to none as well. A friend of mine lost his Springfield out of a holster while doing 70 on a motorcyle. It skidded and bounced along till it eventually wound up in the bar ditch. He called them about seeing if they could buff out or do anything with the scuff marks and gouges in the metal. They told him to box it up and send it to them and they'd see if there was anything they could do. They couldnt save it ... so they sent him back a brand new TRP and a double hand full of spare magazines instead.
 
Have you considered the loaded Springfields for maybe another $100 over the base Mil-Spec models? It'd probably be money well spent with your intended use. I have a feeling that if you started with a Mil-Spec Springfield for competition use, you'd eventually want to start adding things that will add up pretty quick.
 
Every 1911 junky starts out innocently enough, but eventually everybody caves. Especially shooting competition where you'll see and handle a lot of other 1911s and think to yourself "Oh that's nice .... that feels so much better ... I ought to look into getting one of these put on mine". Before you know it, You've got $1,500 in a pistol that might be worth $700-800 at gunshow prices or on a trade. Very seldom will anybody give any premium for mods or custom work unless it's by one of the well known gunsmiths. And even then, it's still a used pistol.
 
Shooting a lot, like with competition use, you'll find a beavertail grip safety much more comfortable, as well as faster and less failure prone out of the holster.  A beavertail grip safety requires a commander hammer, which requires fitting and an action job. You might as well have a new lightweight trigger fitted at the same time for a lighter pull wieght. Since it's at the gunsmith's already, you'll go ahead and cave in to an extended or ambi-safety fitted as part of the action job. If you don't then, you will later when you find yourself riding the thumb safety with your new higher grip. An ambi safety requires either new grips or having modifying the existing ones. And with new grips, you might as well get some hex head grip screws. See where I'm going with this? Once you start customizing a 1911, you're like a heroin junky after his next fix. At least starting with a loaded Springfield, you're more than 3/4 of the way right off the bat.
 
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GOP       3/9/2008 12:17:11 AM

Yimmy,
If minor little things like excessive headspace, endshake, soft barrels eaten alive by hard slides, Rough breech faces and ramps, weak extractors that are sprung in a couple of hundred rounds, stretched links due to misaligned lower lugs, etc., then by all means ... run out and grab a Norinco.  Just be prepared to spend more on replacement parts to bring it into spec than it'll ever be worth.
Agreed. Yimmy seems to be a major fan of Norinco, but honestly their products leave alot to be desired. Especially for the TS' desired purpose.

Im not a pistol guy at all, but what do any of you think about Kimber's?
 
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Yimmy       3/9/2008 7:06:53 PM
Any reliable sources?
 
 
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GOP       3/10/2008 12:43:00 AM

Any reliable sources?

 


Whose this directed at? Sorry, maybe it's obvious, but Im retarded

 
 
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buzzard       3/10/2008 8:54:52 AM
I went with the Taurus PT1911 since there are no Springfields to be found these days. I was told their military contracts are eating all their capacity so they only rarely are available and get snatched up in no time.

I added a bushing type compensator to the Taurus (Accutek, I think was the brand). Yesterday I took it for a test drive at a range. I just used some FMJ reloads that I normally shoot. After about 120 rounds through it I'd say it was a decent gun, though there are some issues. It only rarely locks back on an empty magazine, and the compensator did not impress me in its ability to control muzzle flip. I may end up buying a better compensator. I think this one only had one port (maybe 2, I'll have to look), so that may be the issue. The Wilson ones look like they might be more effective. As for the lockback issue, I suspect that could be related to the magazines, which weren't all that great. It is likely that I will opt again for the Wilson product and get some of their combat magazines. Those always impressed me favorably on my 1991 Officers. The trigger is also likely to get some work, since I don't really like the feel so much there. It could use some smoothing and lightening. Other than the lockback issue, it did perform flawlessly, and was as accurate in my hands as the P220 that I normally shoot.

buzzard

 
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GOP       3/10/2008 12:23:48 PM

I went with the Taurus PT1911 since there are no Springfields to be found these days. I was told their military contracts are eating all their capacity so they only rarely are available and get snatched up in no time.

I added a bushing type compensator to the Taurus (Accutek, I think was the brand). Yesterday I took it for a test drive at a range. I just used some FMJ reloads that I normally shoot. After about 120 rounds through it I'd say it was a decent gun, though there are some issues. It only rarely locks back on an empty magazine, and the compensator did not impress me in its ability to control muzzle flip. I may end up buying a better compensator. I think this one only had one port (maybe 2, I'll have to look), so that may be the issue. The Wilson ones look like they might be more effective. As for the lockback issue, I suspect that could be related to the magazines, which weren't all that great. It is likely that I will opt again for the Wilson product and get some of their combat magazines. Those always impressed me favorably on my 1991 Officers. The trigger is also likely to get some work, since I don't really like the feel so much there. It could use some smoothing and lightening. Other than the lockback issue, it did perform flawlessly, and was as accurate in my hands as the P220 that I normally shoot.

buzzard


Wilson products are top notch from what I've seen/heard, can't really go wrong with them. Highly recommended. However, not sure if the mags will fix the problem or not. I know very little about compensators and trigger work though, so can't offer any advice on that.
After you put in more trigger time, you will become a better shot with it. If you are already as accurate with it as you are with your P220, then you can expect it to have even better performance in the future than your P220. Sounds like a solid gun.
 
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buzzard       3/10/2008 1:48:50 PM



I went with the Taurus PT1911 since there are no Springfields to be found these days. I was told their military contracts are eating all their capacity so they only rarely are available and get snatched up in no time.

I added a bushing type compensator to the Taurus (Accutek, I think was the brand). Yesterday I took it for a test drive at a range. I just used some FMJ reloads that I normally shoot. After about 120 rounds through it I'd say it was a decent gun, though there are some issues. It only rarely locks back on an empty magazine, and the compensator did not impress me in its ability to control muzzle flip. I may end up buying a better compensator. I think this one only had one port (maybe 2, I'll have to look), so that may be the issue. The Wilson ones look like they might be more effective. As for the lockback issue, I suspect that could be related to the magazines, which weren't all that great. It is likely that I will opt again for the Wilson product and get some of their combat magazines. Those always impressed me favorably on my 1991 Officers. The trigger is also likely to get some work, since I don't really like the feel so much there. It could use some smoothing and lightening. Other than the lockback issue, it did perform flawlessly, and was as accurate in my hands as the P220 that I normally shoot.

buzzard



Wilson products are top notch from what I've seen/heard, can't really go wrong with them. Highly recommended. However, not sure if the mags will fix the problem or not. I know very little about compensators and trigger work though, so can't offer any advice on that.

After you put in more trigger time, you will become a better shot with it. If you are already as accurate with it as you are with your P220, then you can expect it to have even better performance in the future than your P220. Sounds like a solid gun.

Actually I was still shooting a little better with the P220 actually but it was close. Though I don't really practice enough to shoot to the accuracy of any gun I own. I should put more time into it, but I generally don't get to the range more than once a month.

I know the P220 is plenty accurate as I've had better shooters than myself do things that amazed me with it.

buzzard

 
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