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Subject: USA #1 in arms ownership! Makes you feel Proud!
RockyMTNClimber    8/28/2007 6:02:37 PM
The right of self defense is universal. UN should mandate all nations allow their citizens access to gun ownership! Check Six Rocky ht**tp://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2007-08-28T174254Z_01_L28348938_RTRUKOC_0_US-WORLD-FIREARMS.xml&pageNumber=0&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage2 By Laura MacInnis GENEVA (Reuters) - The United States has 90 guns for every 100 citizens, making it the most heavily armed society in the world, a report released on Tuesday said. U.S. citizens own 270 million of the world's 875 million known firearms, according to the Small Arms Survey 2007 by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies. About 4.5 million of the 8 million new guns manufactured worldwide each year are purchased in the United States, it said. "There is roughly one firearm for every seven people worldwide. Without the United States, though, this drops to about one firearm per 10 people," it said. India had the world's second-largest civilian gun arsenal, with an estimated 46 million firearms outside law enforcement and the military, though this represented just four guns per 100 people there. China, ranked third with 40 million privately held guns, had 3 firearms per 100 people. Germany, France, Pakistan, Mexico, Brazil and Russia were next in the ranking of country's overall civilian gun arsenals. On a per-capita basis, Yemen had the second most heavily armed citizenry behind the United States, with 61 guns per 100 people, followed by Finland with 56, Switzerland with 46, Iraq with 39 and Serbia with 38. Continued... France, Canada, Sweden, Austria and Germany were next, each with about 30 guns per 100 people, while many poorer countries often associated with violence ranked much lower. Nigeria, for instance, had just one gun per 100 people. "Firearms are very unevenly distributed around the world. The image we have of certain regions such as Africa or Latin America being awash with weapons -- these images are certainly misleading," Small Arms Survey director Keith Krause said. "Weapons ownership may be correlated with rising levels of wealth, and that means we need to think about future demand in parts of the world where economic growth is giving people larger disposable income," he told a Geneva news conference. The report, which relied on government data, surveys and media reports to estimate the size of world arsenals, estimated there were 650 million civilian firearms worldwide, and 225 million held by law enforcement and military forces. Five years ago, the Small Arms Survey had estimated there were a total of just 640 million firearms globally. "Civilian holdings of weapons worldwide are much larger than we previously believed," Krause said, attributing the increase largely to better research and more data on weapon distribution networks. Only about 12 percent of civilian weapons are thought to be registered with authorities.
 
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DropBear    RockyMTNClimber   8/29/2007 9:28:08 PM
  
5. Tightening gun controls does not reduce crimes. In Australia and The U.K. you find crimes went up with the siezure of weapons.
 
That depends entirely on what type of crimes were committed, by whom and under what circumstances.
 
I have lived my entire life in the third largest city in Oz and have never witnessed any form of gun related crime. I never feel unsafe walking the streets after dark and have never heard a gun go off in the suburbs.
 
If what people say is true about gun restrictions in Oz not having had a lick of difference to crime, then I would invite them to travel to my home town. If you want the stats on gun violence, I am sure that Aussie Digger would be able to enlighten you as to the pros of gun control. He is a detective and works in law enforcement.
 
Certain guns were banned after the Port Arthur massacre and I am not aware of any similar type of mass violence happening since. In the USA, however, it appears to happen at college campuses with a sad regularity.
 
By all means, have your guns, but when people (not you, others in general) say things like "everybody should own a gun for their protection" I really have to wonder why.
 
Cheerio.
 
 
 
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jastayme3       8/29/2007 10:05:56 PM

No, it's not. It is still smarter than call for global gun ban.

Whilst you are certainly welcome to your opinion, I bet several billion others would not agree with you.


You obviously live in a country where gun violence is the norm and where almost everybody owns a gun. Fine, but don't think that other folk who live in countries without your level of violence should be more like yours just because you like it that way.






Gun violence is the norm? Funny I managed to go a whole week without shooting anyone being shot at or seeing someone shoot at anyone else. Guess I'm pretty odd.
 
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YelliChink       8/29/2007 10:46:56 PM

  
Certain guns were banned after the Port Arthur massacre and I am not aware of any similar type of mass violence happening since. In the USA, however, it appears to happen at college campuses with a sad regularity.
By all means, have your guns, but when people (not you, others in general) say things like "everybody should own a gun for their protection" I really have to wonder why.

There is a case which a Korean cop killed dozens of people before commit suicide. ROK is pretty much a gun-ban country, and given the right condition, bad things can happen. It's always execution style. Yes, bad things do happen, and I just keep wondering why this kind of thing hasn't happen in places like Knob Creek. Maybe it's a bad idea shooting at people in places they not only shoot back, but also out-gun and out-number?
 
 
 
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jastayme3       8/29/2007 11:22:54 PM


5. Tightening gun controls does not reduce crimes. In Australia and The U.K. you find crimes went up with the siezure of weapons.

That depends entirely on what type of crimes were committed, by whom and under what circumstances.


I have lived my entire life in the third largest city in Oz and have never witnessed any form of gun related crime. I never feel unsafe walking the streets after dark and have never heard a gun go off in the suburbs.


If what people say is true about gun restrictions in Oz not having had a lick of difference to crime, then I would invite them to travel to my home town. If you want the stats on gun violence, I am sure that Aussie Digger would be able to enlighten you as to the pros of gun control. He is a detective and works in law enforcement.


Certain guns were banned after the Port Arthur massacre and I am not aware of any similar type of mass violence happening since. In the USA, however, it appears to happen at college campuses with a sad regularity.


By all means, have your guns, but when people (not you, others in general) say things like "everybody should own a gun for their protection" I really have to wonder why.


Cheerio.







The reason why is people are emotionally invested in a tiresome argument that goes on like a philosophical Verdun.
 
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ArtyEngineer    Question   8/29/2007 11:32:49 PM
Are there any statistics for the US regarding how many of the "Illegally" held firearms were initially purchansed and held legally? 
 
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YelliChink       8/30/2007 1:18:52 AM

Are there any statistics for the US regarding how many of the "Illegally" held firearms were initially purchansed and held legally? 



ATF is trying to establish a national data base by extortion and bullying gun shop owners. All firearm deal must pass through national instant crime check system. The problem is, the system is not electronic in the past, and all documents are, by the law, kept by gun dealers, or FFL holders. Given the fact that there are already too many guns out there, it is impossible to track crime guns that was made decades ago. Some crime guns, however, were former police weapons, and those category seem to be like in thousands already.
 
 
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flamingknives       8/30/2007 1:38:15 PM
Rocky, I think that you are drawing false conclusions.

The number of firearms used in self defence in the UK was minimal prior to the handgun ban, especially as they couldn't be held for such a purpose and needed to be secured when not in use. Therefore blaming the handgun ban for a rise in violent crime is not consistent.

Now it is important to note that I am not claiming that the handgun ban was effective or in any way worthwhile. It was clearly a knee-jerk reaction with no logic behind it. The rise in violent crime involving firearms (primarily pistols) shows that the ban did not work, but it does not necessarily show that violent crime  would not have risen had the ban not been implemented.
 
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YelliChink       8/30/2007 2:08:09 PM

Rocky, I think that you are drawing false conclusions.

The number of firearms used in self defence in the UK was minimal prior to the handgun ban, especially as they couldn't be held for such a purpose and needed to be secured when not in use. Therefore blaming the handgun ban for a rise in violent crime is not consistent.

Now it is important to note that I am not claiming that the handgun ban was effective or in any way worthwhile. It was clearly a knee-jerk reaction with no logic behind it. The rise in violent crime involving firearms (primarily pistols) shows that the ban did not work, but it does not necessarily show that violent crime  would not have risen had the ban not been implemented.

Last time I check news on UK, there was a apartment owner arrested by police because he confronted a burglar with a stick or a chef knife on his hand,. The burglar backed off then fell out of the window, and were seriously wounded.
 
In other news, an old couple was attacked at home, leaves the wife dead and the husband seriously wounded.
 
 
 
 
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flamingknives       8/30/2007 3:25:58 PM
So there might be a different reason to the rise in violent crime other than firearms or lack thereof?

Do I have to guess your meaning, devine it psychically or would you deign to make it clear?
 
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YelliChink       8/30/2007 4:15:04 PM

So there might be a different reason to the rise in violent crime other than firearms or lack thereof?

Do I have to guess your meaning, devine it psychically or would you deign to make it clear?

Edmund Burke said: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Apparently, he didn't live in the period when good men aren't allowed to do anything to prevent the triumph of evil.
 
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