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Subject: .357 Magnum stopping power
GOP    3/12/2007 10:24:42 PM
Whatsup guys? What kind of Self defense round is the .357 mag? Some of you may know that I'm 17, but I'm a gun nut, and love the S&W 686 with 4 inch barrel in .357 mag/.38 special. I'd use the gun almost completely for shooting at the range, but when I turn 21 I plan on getting my CCW license/pistol permit so it would then be used legally as a self-defense weapon. Just curious what your thoughts on the round is. The reason I like it is because it's stainless steal, and therefore won't rust (we own a fishing boat and it may be used by my Dad on the boat as a Self-Defense weapon). It's also highly, highly thought of in the NSW community (most SEALs don't like the the Sig P226 Navy, because they basically rust at the sound of "salt water")
 
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YelliChink    GOP   5/14/2007 1:19:34 PM
First, 357 Magnum is a powerful round, but please disgard the stopping power thing. Practice shooting at head, neck and upper torsal for lethal shot, and limbs, hip for less lethal shots.
 
Second, 357mag is probably not a good round for CCW. 9mm and .45 ACP are fine, but 357mag can only work in a handful of revolvers. I doubt that .357SIG is a good choice either, because, for similar performance, .40S&W is more available. Also, .357 revolves are huge and heavy, which is not something you'd prefer to carry all day long.
 
My suggestion is to stick with Glock, Springfield or S&W plastic frame handguns with hicap mags. 9mm, .45ACP, .40S&W, compact, micro of full size, it's all your personal choice, preference and consideration.
 
 
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flamingknives       5/14/2007 1:33:39 PM
Yimmy, 

If the homeowner was in genuine fear of his life, then he at least has some justification. Not knowing the background to the case means it is impossible to cast judgement.

There was at least one case in the UK, no less, where a pre-emptive killing was ruled as self-defence.
 
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Yimmy       5/14/2007 2:14:54 PM

There was at least one case in the UK, no less, where a pre-emptive killing was ruled as self-defence.

Would you know where I might find information concerning that case?

 
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Ehran       5/14/2007 2:33:13 PM
posting news stories about people defending themselves from criminals and then someone on the other side posting news stories about accidental shootings and people getting hurt by muggers etc advances the discussion not a whit as i pointed out to you before.  it's just a blatant attempt to emotionally sway the discussion.
 
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flamingknives       5/14/2007 4:48:39 PM
Yimmy,

I'm afraid I don't. I had a google for it but didn't find it. It was three or four years ago - a woman killed her sister's abusive partner. Given the UK's self-defence laws, there are situations where that could occur.

The example with the armed homeowner above would probably fall afoul of excessive force rule in the UK, unless he had reasonable cause to believe that the intruders were armed. Since we don't know the extent of the case, it is difficult to make informed comment.
 
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RockyMTNClimber    Ehran, I am afraid a conversation about accident statistics will not help your case either....   5/14/2007 11:06:36 PM

posting news stories about people defending themselves from criminals and then someone on the other side posting news stories about accidental shootings and people getting hurt by muggers etc advances the discussion not a whit as i pointed out to you before.  it's just a blatant attempt to emotionally sway the discussion.



U.S. STATISTICS       SOURCE           LAST YEAR*          TREND
--------------- -------------------- --------------- -----------------
Firearm &       U.S. Dept. of the      Up 2.6% to        Up 27.7%
Ammunition           Treasury        $2.1 billion      since 1998
Sales
--------------- -------------------- --------------- -----------------
Firearms        Bureau of Alcohol,                     22.8 million
Produced for    Tobacco, Firearms                         total
Retail Sale     and Explosives (ATF)       2,947,008    since 1998
--------------- -------------------- --------------- -----------------
Firearms                                               10.7 million
Imported for   U.S. Census Bureau                         total
Retail Sale                                1,845,366    since 1998
--------------- -------------------- --------------- -----------------
Right to Carry    National Rifle        Passed in    Now in 40 states;
Laws            Association (NRA)    2 more states    9 added since
1998
--------------- -------------------- --------------- -----------------
Firearm Crimes  Federal Bureau of     Down 2.4% to        Down 7%
Investigation (FBI)      339,280        since 1998
--------------- -------------------- --------------- -----------------
Firearm         Centers for Disease    Down 1.1% to       Down 1.8%
Suicides          Control (CDC)          16,907        since 1998
--------------- -------------------- --------------- -----------------
Accidental       National Safety     Tied previous      Down 19.2%
Firearm              Council        year's all-time    since 1998
Fatalities                             low of 700
--------------- -------------------- --------------- -----------------
Accidental
Firearm         National Safety        Down to         Down 50.4%
Fatalities,          Council        all-time low of    since 1998
Age 14 & Under                          60
--------------- -------------------- --------------- -----------------
* Most recent year for which statistics have been compiled; may be
2005, 2004 or earlier. Fully formatted, color, hyperlinked version of
this chart available at .
 
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RockyMTNClimber    Statistics on Accidental firearm deaths cont'd....   5/14/2007 11:53:21 PM
 

Ht*****tp://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm

All of the statistics used to create the following comparisons were taken from the National Safety Council's Injury Facts, 2000 Edition.

 

 
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Ehran       5/16/2007 12:28:48 PM




posting news stories about people defending themselves from criminals and then someone on the other side posting news stories about accidental shootings and people getting hurt by muggers etc advances the discussion not a whit as i pointed out to you before.  it's just a blatant attempt to emotionally sway the discussion.



it may not help my case but at least it's relevant to the discussion rocky.
 
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RockyMTNClimber    Thanks to GOP    5/16/2007 12:58:07 PM
   
Thanks to GOP for allowing us to hijack the thread for our gun control conversation.
 
Thank you Ehran & Flamingknives for the talk.
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
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timmeh    My exp.   4/3/2008 6:41:32 AM

I found this thread while looking up info on what weapon I should buy next and I had to throw my two cents in. I have hade to pull my S&W 6" m19-4 .357 mag.  twice at work. The first time was when I kicked a guy out of the store because he was drunk and was knocking stuff over. He pulled a knife on me and started yelling at me, while coming at me. The second time was when I told a guy that the parking lot was not a urinal. He, and his friends (two more) did not like that and came at me (two with broken beer bottles). I pulled my weapon both times and it save my life. That doesn't mean you don't have to be careful though. The first time the cops took a statement and left, but the second time I was arrested for aggravated assault (I was acquitted).
 
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