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Subject: .357 Magnum stopping power
GOP    3/12/2007 10:24:42 PM
Whatsup guys? What kind of Self defense round is the .357 mag? Some of you may know that I'm 17, but I'm a gun nut, and love the S&W 686 with 4 inch barrel in .357 mag/.38 special. I'd use the gun almost completely for shooting at the range, but when I turn 21 I plan on getting my CCW license/pistol permit so it would then be used legally as a self-defense weapon. Just curious what your thoughts on the round is. The reason I like it is because it's stainless steal, and therefore won't rust (we own a fishing boat and it may be used by my Dad on the boat as a Self-Defense weapon). It's also highly, highly thought of in the NSW community (most SEALs don't like the the Sig P226 Navy, because they basically rust at the sound of "salt water")
 
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ChdNorm       5/9/2007 7:54:46 PM
"Exactly how often does a 6ft, 200lb viking burst into your house? Or anyone's house, for that matter?" Flamingknives
 
There are records kept of that sort of thing. According to the FBIs UCR stats for 2005, there were 42,324 residential robberies in the US.  There were also 301,431 residential nighttime burglaries. That's not even mentioning the additional 12,068 murders and 70,472 rapes.
 
Whether all the perpetrators were 6ft 200# Vikings or not ... I can't say.
 
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Horsesoldier       5/9/2007 8:42:50 PM
i was suggesting to rocky that posting anecdotes in this kind of a discussion isn't helpful.
though i would suggest that in the criminals vs upstanding citizens duel the criminals are well ahead on total kills.
 
I believe there is pretty general agreement among researchers that something like 50% or more of all murders in the US are committed by those otherwise engaged in criminal endeavors against their fellow criminals -- this is primarily fueled by the extra-legal nature of the drug business as a side effect of the US War on Drugs.  The war on drugs creates an environment that is a natural breeding ground for violent-crime-as-business-practice:  if I'm a drug dealer and you're a drug dealer and you cheat me out of a large sum of money, what am I going to do?  Call my lawyer and sue you for my money or drugs back?  etc.
 
In cases of actual armed citizens confronting armed criminals, the results don't seem to favor the criminals.  At least that is the perception among criminals, a majority of whom in one study reported being more afraid of private citizens with firearms then law enforcement officers.  (On the basic premise that a citizen defending themselves or their property is quite a bit more likely to use deadly force, and quite a bit more likely to resort to it more rapidly, than an LEO, who has the primary duty of apprehending, not killing, in almost all cases, and who has stringent rules concerning deadly force even when called on to use it.)
 
 
 
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flamingknives       5/10/2007 1:36:50 PM
Is a residential robbery where someone breaks into your house while you are in it? Or do you have to interface with the criminal?
 
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Ehran       5/10/2007 2:43:03 PM

gee and i thought it was a "fact" that you had resorted to anecdotes to prop up your postition.  when i returned an anecdote you then cry about my tactics which as i said is hypocritical of you at best. 
 
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RockyMTNClimber    Ehran, I was the one who posted Gov't and private bibliographed research   5/10/2007 3:13:58 PM


gee and i thought it was a "fact" that you had resorted to anecdotes to prop up your postition.  when i returned an anecdote you then cry about my tactics which as i said is hypocritical of you at best. 


 
You were the one tossing names around. I don't expect allot from you but lets keep the facts straight.
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
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RockyMTNClimber    Ehran, If you can't follow that, just scroll up and you will see who said what. You people lie when the proof is written on your forehead! Comical!   5/10/2007 3:46:44 PM
 
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flamingknives       5/10/2007 3:52:39 PM
"these people" Rocky? Tsk. Stereotyping doesn't help your argument.

Here's an idea for all those who like to split the world into simple camps and put anyone who disagrees with them in the other one:

Q: What's the difference between a Liberal and a Communist?

A: You aren't allowed to shoot Liberals.
 
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RockyMTNClimber    Quel Dommage!   5/10/2007 5:35:59 PM
A: You aren't allowed to shoot Liberals. <f.k.
 
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Ehran       5/11/2007 12:34:38 PM
since you are apparently suffering from selective amnesia please refer back to your post "self defense is a right" 3/19/2007 where you posted a number of anecdotes.
 
you really do need to pick up your game rocky.
 
your phrase for the day "straw man argument"
 
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buzzard       5/11/2007 1:17:59 PM
Yes, he did start with annecdotes of documented cases of self defense. He also went on to provide plenty of actual studies on the effects of gun ownership on crime rates. Somehow all you've done is spout leftist doggerel, while providing no actual evidence yet you seem to think you've got the upper hand. Bollocks.

buzzard

 
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