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Subject: Gun Porn: United States Navy Mark 14 Mod 0 Enhanced Battle Rifle (EBR)
HYPOCENTER    2/6/2007 7:30:29 PM
Gun porn, you know you like it. This week, it's the M-14. I'm so in love with this weapon I consider it to be a national treasure. Anyway, it's still in use by some services. And I know the SEALS still use it (It's been updated of course) which says quite allot. Without further ado, here are photos of the the most bad-ass looking assault rifle in the world, Mk 14 Mod 0 EBR: (see post below)
 
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Rasputin       2/7/2007 6:40:35 PM



It seems that the M14 mechanisim and platform is really stable and accurate, so much so that the M14 with a scope can even be used as a sniper rifle in the SVD class.

But for such a promising platform, why is it that when down sized to the 5.56mm in the form of the Ruger mini 14, the accuracy of the 5.56 is inferior to the M16????????

Could a longer barrel provided better accuracy for this reliable platform?



I think that Ruger does not build them for accuracy. It is a very good gun that is sort of the AK47 of 5.56's, it retails in US$ for around $550.00 +/-.

 

If you were willing to give Ruger $1,250.00 a copy for them I bet they could give you a higher quality barrel and action that would be very competitive with any 5.56 out there.

 

Check Six

 

Rocky


That would be $250 more than the colt M16 type rifles. But fair enough if there is M16 like accuracy without the m16 jams.

 
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Rasputin    M14 bull pup   2/7/2007 6:43:09 PM
Still wondering if it is possible to have an M14 bullpup with the trigger and pistol grip moved all the way to the front end.

The amount of recoil coming back directly on the firer's shouldder might not be comfortable at all.

 
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RockyMTNClimber    Mini 14 Accuracy   2/7/2007 7:07:55 PM







It seems that the M14 mechanisim and platform is really stable and accurate, so much so that the M14 with a scope can even be used as a sniper rifle in the SVD class.

But for such a promising platform, why is it that when down sized to the 5.56mm in the form of the Ruger mini 14, the accuracy of the 5.56 is inferior to the M16????????

Could a longer barrel provided better accuracy for this reliable platform?





I think that Ruger does not build them for accuracy. It is a very good gun that is sort of the AK47 of 5.56's, it retails in US$ for around $550.00 +/-.



 



If you were willing to give Ruger $1,250.00 a copy for them I bet they could give you a higher quality barrel and action that would be very competitive with any 5.56 out there.



 



Check Six



 



Rocky




That would be $250 more than the colt M16 type rifles. But fair enough if there is M16 like accuracy without the m16 jams.


I do not mean to demean the good little rifle. It is good enough for Gov't work as they say and fun to shoot!
Check Six
 
Rocky

 
 
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doggtag       2/7/2007 7:30:30 PM

I guess the United States do not like bull pup rifles, but if some thought had been put into it, it will be interesting to see what kind of Americanized M14 bull pup can result form Lake city aresenal or Springfield.

I think the primary reason that bullpups never took off as US service rifles is because the US realizes not everyone shoots from the same shoulder.
Being a lefty myself, I fire off my left shoulder...with a typical AR-15 series ejecting across in front of my face, rather than off to the opposite side (even though the newer rifles have a built-in brass deflector "nub" at the back edge of the ejection port).
 
The majority of bullpups I've seen are all designed to be fired off the right shoulder, ejecting spent casing off to the right, away from the firer. This would be an impossible weapon for left handed/left shouldered shooters to use, and making those 1 in 7 or however many left handed models to satisy that small percentage of left handed shooters, most militaries don't see it as worth the additional expense (lefty versions of weapons always seem to cost a bit more).
 
I frown on the whole "learn to shoot off your right shoulder" mentality.
During urban training and combat scenarios, not every shot around a corner or cover has the ideal advantage of being able to be fired solely off the right shoulder. It's bad battle tactics for a soldier to have to expose his entire upper torso around a corner to get a shot off his right shoulder, as opposed to getting a lefty, who may only need to stick out his head, arm, & shoulder to get the same shot (and vice versa, us lefties aren't always comfortable sticking half our body out around the opposite corner to get a shot off).
 
Unless a bullpup is made semi-ambidextrous, wherein the magazine can be slant-loaded (angled) into either the left or right side and ejected thru the bottom, every left handed shooter will have to learn to shoot over, something that could take considerably more time especially because of left eye/right eye dominance issues (what eye do you primarily aim down the sights with).
 
That FN F2000 assault weapon tries to get around that issue by ejecting its spent cases forward, alongside the barrel.
A novel approach, definitely, but I don't know whether there are complications if one needs to fire the weapon elevated, as at upper story windows. I don't know if the stacking of empty cartridges in the ejection tube will cause problems in that instance.

 
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Rasputin    To Dogtag   2/8/2007 4:28:31 AM


I guess the United States do not like bull pup rifles, but if some thought had been put into it, it will be interesting to see what kind of Americanized M14 bull pup can result form Lake city arsenal or Springfield.


I think the primary reason that bullpups never took off as US service rifles is because the US realizes not everyone shoots from the same shoulder.
Some how I feel that there may be alternatives, but no outright replacement of the M16 platform anytime too soon, because the battle rifle is such a passion for not only almost all in the Armed forces but also many in the government, media, grass roots, civil service ???.............. Gone are the days when some general could decide lets give the boys this new rifle and so there.

Being a lefty myself, I fire off my left shoulder...with a typical AR-15 series ejecting across in front of my face, rather than off to the opposite side (even though the newer rifles have a built-in brass deflector "nub" at the back edge of the ejection port)

The majority of bullpups I've seen are all designed to be fired off the right shoulder, ejecting spent casing off to the right, away from the firer. This would be an impossible weapon for left handed/left shouldered shooters to use, and making those 1 in 7 or however many left handed models to satisfy that small percentage of left handed shooters, most militaries don't see it as worth the additional expense (lefty versions of weapons always seem to cost a bit more).

I thought only the British SA-80 and Tavor are not made for lefties. But the most popular ones like the Steyr AUG and the French St Entiene "Bugle" have modular ambidextrous parts and frame, allows the ejection port and even the safety to be easily switched  to the either side depending on the shooter. Found out this info on an self critical article about the British bullpup, on why nations among the ex British common wealth were all buying French or Austrian instead of the traditional British.
 

I frown on the whole "learn to shoot off your right shoulder" mentality.

During urban training and combat scenarios, not every shot around a corner or cover has the ideal advantage of being able to be fired solely off the right shoulder. It's bad battle tactics for a soldier to have to expose his entire upper torso around a corner to get a shot off his right shoulder, as opposed to getting a lefty, who may only need to stick out his head, arm, & shoulder to get the same shot (and vice versa, us lefties aren't always comfortable sticking half our body out around the opposite corner to get a shot off).

Though I thought that there are never enough lefties to go around, for in a squad it is better as you said to have people naturally shouldering to the left and facing right. Some righties have to actually train to shoulder and pull trigger from the with their left.

Unless a bullpup is made semi-ambidextrous, wherein the magazine can be slant-loaded (angled) into either the left or right side and ejected thru the bottom, every left handed shooter will have to learn to shoot over, something that could take considerably more time especially because of left eye/right eye dominance issues (what eye do you primarily aim down the sights with).

There is the calico rifle, although not a bullpup, it has a top mounted helical feed magazine that ejects the brass downwards, though they need a bag attached to capture the brass. Somehow, the Calico did not have a good reputation and their guns are fading away.
The bag to collect the brass is required to prevent the spend brass from entering the pants or tripping the shooter.

 

That FN F2000 assault weapon tries to get around that issue by ejecting its spent cases forward, alongside the barrel.

A novel approach, definitely, but I don't know whether there are complications if one needs to fire the weapon elevated, as at upper story windows. I don't know if the stacking of empty cartridges in the ejection tube will cause problems in that instance.




 
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Vritra       2/8/2007 9:43:52 AM

Surprised that no one has mentioned that many Navy personnel on guard-duty carry M14s (albeit in blue/gray polymer stock - but same old configuration)... seen it in Philly, Norfolk etc.

 
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Vritra       2/8/2007 9:46:51 AM

Aesthetically speaking, I never did like the old M14s... but the first and the last ones in HYPO's pics are pretty good looking.

 
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Rasputin    Retro Americana guns with new furniture making comeback   2/8/2007 9:55:56 AM
Besides the M14 with new furniture, the M60E3 is also making a come back on helicopters with its stunning ability to spit out thousands of rounds without changing barrels.

Since new stuff are not good enough for everyone, some new styling can bring old shooters back.

 
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doggtag    To Rasputin (Calico rifle)   2/8/2007 11:39:57 AM
I thought all those Calico guns were all pistol caliber (.22LR, 9mm, etc).
Technically, doesn't that make them SMGs more than ARs?
 
Mind you though: a 50 round helical mag of 9mm would be most welcome for room clearing. It may not be a TommyGun in .45, but still better than a handgun.
 
I remember seeing the Calico in "Hollywood caliber" in the movie Total Recall, dressed up to make it look like some fanciful futuristic space gun.
 
Of course, for CQB and close range work, there's always that FN 5.7mm P90...
Apparently, there's a US-street legal longer-barrel carbine model available (semi-auto).
I'm curious if the longer barrel improves velocity, penetration, range, and takedown energy.
 
 
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Zerbrechen    FN P90   2/8/2007 2:15:42 PM

I thought all those Calico guns were all pistol caliber (.22LR, 9mm, etc).

Technically, doesn't that make them SMGs more than ARs?

 

Mind you though: a 50 round helical mag of 9mm would be most welcome for room clearing. It may not be a TommyGun in .45, but still better than a handgun.

 

I remember seeing the Calico in "Hollywood caliber" in the movie Total Recall, dressed up to make it look like some fanciful futuristic space gun.

 

Of course, for CQB and close range work, there's always that FN 5.7mm P90...

Apparently, there's a US-street legal longer-barrel carbine model available (semi-auto).

I'm curious if the longer barrel improves velocity, penetration, range, and takedown energy.

 

 

   Calicos are fading, but they're still out there.  Of course, the price sky-rocketed now also.

    Why not use a shorty M4 for your CQB?  The bullet has more "oomph" and the carbine isn't all that long.  By a "shorty" I mean a 12" barrel, not the 14.5" barrel 
 
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