next terrorist weapon

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Subject: next terrorist weapon
andyf 8/26/2006 8:34:34 AM

rather than liquid bombs or other explosives.. why havent the terrorists worked out that a bit of mustard gas/phosgene/etc released on a plane at altitude would be a hell of a weapon.? some things would be so easy to make, how about a thermos flask with liquified carbon monoxide in it? the air on a plane is recirculated- ok , so the terroris dies as well, but they dont care about that

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FJV 8/28/2007 1:15:50 PM

Propably because the economics of using such weapons are unfavorable when compared to plain old fashioned bombs and bullets.

You can do a chemical attack and need special handling, difficult planning, hard to get equipment, difficult deployment and possible small results (unlike soldiers, civilians are not required to stay in the contaminated area and so limit their exposure). Or you can just spray a machinegun at a crowd and kill an equal number of civilians with much less hassle.

You might even make several conventional attacks for the same hassle of 1 chemical attack.

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Nanheyangrouchuan the next terrorist attack 8/31/2007 8:06:59 PM

Terrorists employed at food and beverage vendors for major sporting events would be able to inject spores into everything. The food will be frozen and then cooked, the rapid temperature change would keep the pathogens in spore form until they enter the cozy environment our digestive tract. Halfway through the last half of said sporting event people are vomiting, keeling over and collapsing en masse in front of every camera in the stadium and tens of millions if not billions of viewers.

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andyf 8/31/2007 10:23:51 PM

if tom clancy uses any of this stuff we'd best get royalties!!!

luckily I think our best defence is their stupidity

these folks arent educated or scientifically minded. - if they were they wouldnt be islamic terrorists

theres plenty easier stuff to make than mustard gas...

carbon monoxide?

chlorine?

ammonia

sulphur dioxide?

any of those would cause many deaths and injuries

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andyf 8/31/2007 10:27:43 PM

ok, another plot idea for you.

give a terrorist a rifle and a clip of rounds. his orders are on every odd numbered day to go out to a road bridge and snipe out the driver of a petrol tanker

( he has an opposite number at the other end of the country ith the same orders, but for even days)

when he runs out of ammo, he is to bury the gun in a deserted location and never do anything else illegal

what implications would this attack have?

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bob the brit 9/4/2007 10:42:45 PM

if tom clancy uses any of this stuff we'd best get royalties!!!

luckily I think our best defence is their stupidity

these folks arent educated or scientifically minded. - if they were they wouldnt be islamic terrorists

theres plenty easier stuff to make than mustard gas...

carbon monoxide?

chlorine?

ammonia

sulphur dioxide?

any of those would cause many deaths and injuries

andy i wouldn't exactly call terrorists idiots... turning a plane into a cruise missile is actually a very ingenious tatic, i'd say the idiots are those that forgot to raise an alarm when men arrived at pilot training and only wanted to learn how to takeoff.
these type of terrorists are in the same league as those currently in afghanistan using cellular phones to set off explosive devices... not exactly counting to three on an abacus is it

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EW3 doggtag/Warnerd 9/4/2007 11:06:22 PM

The devil is in the details.

LNG is liguid natural gas. OK, that is an oxymoron. It is under great pressure. Please refer to Boyles Law. They liguify it by inceasing pressure and reducing the temperature.

You open the pressure chamber it will boil off quickly.

But most LNG transports have a lot of concrete around the dewar flask. It can't be puncuated easily, and I have to leave it at that.

Pound to found LNG is probably less dangerous than gasoline. - you are asking a hard question to answer. Gasoline does not really burn at anyting close to Earth temperatures. Gasoline VAPOR burns quite well.

Yes, LNG will vaporize as it absorbs heat from it’s surrounding, but that slows and stops as the area around it is cooled.

Wrong, go back to Boyles law or the more correct univerals gas formula tht embraces Boyles law.

PV = NRT as I recall of the top of my head.

LNG vaporizes by a reduction of pressure when the kettle is cracked. Same is true of any cryogenic gas.

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greyghost 9/13/2007 8:19:30 PM

I think the next outside of the box attack would be a suicide attack with a group of guys infected with a highly contagious desease. Have them ride in with the illegal population from Mexico.

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greyghost 9/13/2007 8:19:37 PM

I think the next outside of the box attack would be a suicide attack with a group of guys infected with a highly contagious desease. Have them ride in with the illegal population from Mexico.

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WarNerd 9/14/2007 6:28:30 AM

I'm sorry but you are wrong about a number of things:

The devil is in the details.

LNG is liguid natural gas. OK, that is an oxymoron. It is under great pressure. Please refer to Boyles Law. They liguify it by inceasing pressure and reducing the temperature.

You open the pressure chamber it will boil off quickly.

• LNG is a liquid natural gas, the same way as water is liquid steam. You make it using a refrigeration process. The standard process uses the does natural gas as the working fluid, so it does get compressed, but the final product is a very cold liquid (-270°F) at near atmospheric pressure (<3.6 psig). [see wikipedia: LNG]

• LNG only includes trace amounts of hydrocarbons other than methane and ethane. The heavier fraction (principally propane and butane) are used to make LPG, this is a gas compressed to form a liquid, but much lower pressures are involved (15 psig to 300 psig, depending on the mixture and temperature [wikipedia: LPG]) than would be required for the lighter fractions.

Yes, LNG will vaporize as it absorbs heat from it’s surrounding, but that slows and stops as the area around it is cooled.

Wrong, go back to Boyles law or the more correct univerals gas formula tht embraces Boyles law.

PV = NRT as I recall of the top of my head.

LNG vaporizes by a reduction of pressure when the kettle is cracked. Same is true of any cryogenic gas.

• Boyle's Law is also known as the Ideal Gas Law. It tends to break down at higher densities (i.e. High pressures and/or low temperatures). It absolutely does NOT APPLY to liquids, solids, or anything that is not perfectly compressible.

• LNG vaporising is a phase change, just like when water boils to make steam. The heat required to boil a substance is call the heat of vaporization. For methane it is 8200 J/mole, by comparison for water it is 40,700 J/mole

• Also, if you are expanding a gas, you will need to take the Joule-Thompson effect into account.

• Natural gas is less dense than air, so it tends to rise (which gets it away from most ignition sources) and dilute itself below the combustion range quickly. Gasoline vapor is denser than air so it flows more like water. In still air or a covered system (like a storm drain) a stream of of gasoline vapor can remain in the combustion range for a mile or more. Gasoline also has a wider ignition range than natural gas

But most LNG transports have a lot of concrete around the dewar flask. It can't be puncuated easily, and I have to leave it at that.

It's not concrete, which is a poor insulator. Might be calcium silicate, but there are nearly as many insulation schemes as there are tranport designs at the moment,

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Jeff_F_F 9/14/2007 8:55:00 AM

temperature and pressure are directly related. The gas is compressed at first which makes it hotter. The heat is removed and the liquid is returned to normal pressure which makes it very cold. Similar to what happens when you release compressed CO2 but more so. In order to return to a gaseous state it needs to absorb heat. Loss of pressure is not enough.

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