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Subject: Stopping Power
whisperz    11/17/2004 12:02:05 PM
Bottom line. 7.62mm over 5.56mm in a military rifle. (military rifle in what most soldiers in an army would use.) .45 caliber over 9mm. in a pistol cartridge.
 
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Bigbro    RE:Stopping Power - boer    2/16/2005 7:31:30 PM
I have used the CCI stingers, biggest thing I shot with them was a badger that went about 30 pounds. He was only 6 feet away and it was a head shot. The bullets open up very quickly and do not give much in the way of penitration. on small stuff they work great but in my .22's they are not as accurate as some of the other high performance .22lr rounds. In my rifles they function very well but in my pistol sometimes they are more of a problem. hope that helps. have no information on the 9x19 7n31 sorry. Bb
 
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gixxxerking    Stopping Power Myths   2/19/2005 10:27:16 PM
I didnt read any of the most recent books. But I have shot a man with a .45 cal round before. He was standing 2 meters in front of me behind a wooden door with stain glass windows in it. The round went through one of the glass and hit him in the upper chest just above his heart. The impact knocked him backwards onto the ground instantly! But he got right up screaming in pain and ran for it. He got about 50 meters before collapsing from fatigue and blood loss. I recovered the bullet which COMPLETELY penetrated him and went into the grass. It was a 165 gr. Federal Hydra Shok. It expanded to 2x its original diameter. The bullet retained almost 100% mass and blossomed into 7 petals, one of which broke off and I never found it. I later broke off another petal fooling around with the slug which I still have. The lesson I learned that night was that no matter what bullet you fire from a pistol, if it doesnt hit a vital organ or the central nervous system, most people will still be able to fight back long enough to return the favor.
 
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Shooter    RE:Stopping Power/ is the .22 (lr)stinger jhp round any good?   3/10/2005 7:58:13 PM
Stopping power is a function of two things. Energy and wound cavity volume. The .22LR has little true "STOPPING POWER" as it is defined by any expert. But it UNQUESTIONABLY HAS THE HIGHEST PECENTAGE OF ONE SHOT STOPS OF ANY MILLITARY SERVICE AMMO. AMOUNG EXPERTS THE LITE BULLET ROUNDS ARE NOT WELL THOUGHT OF. (Stinger, Viper, Expeeder, 32-34 grains weight, Etc.) Most pros recomend the solid nose 40 or 42 grain bullet for "serious" work. It has a nearly 100% rating in the real world.
 
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GOP    RE:Stopping Power    3/11/2005 10:20:54 PM
For full automatic, the 5.56 is a near perfect round. I have never shot a full or burst fire M-4, but I have heard read stories of the 5.56 being much easier to control in full auto, due to the less kick and the gun does not "rise" as much. Also, the 5.56 round fragments inside the target, so in theory, does more damage. But, for someone like me who is not yet in the military, and only is concerned about 'home defense', it is all about shot placement. You can shoot a 50 BMG at a target, and if it only hits his leg, he probably will not die (immediately), although he might lose a limb
 
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gixxxerking    RE:Stopping Power/ is the .22 (lr)stinger jhp round any good?   3/12/2005 2:08:15 AM
 
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GOP    RE:Stopping Power - Gixxerking   3/13/2005 10:34:52 PM
I would have to agree with you about hitting a vital organ. I have never even come close to shooting a person, or even a deer :( , but I do know that if you misplace a shot or hit someone in the leg, etc, then they will have enough adrenaline to forget the pain and fire back. Who did you shoot, a Insurgent?
 
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gixxxerking    RE:Stopping Power - Gixxerking   3/14/2005 1:17:49 AM
No. Thats not from an insurgent. We use ball ammunition to shoot them...;) That was from my tour of duty in LA with a personal weapon. The police gave me the bullet back after the investigation concluded the shooting justified. Now I'm not so paranoid about caliber. I'm much more into shot placement which I have found to be far more important if you need to stop a fight right now.
 
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buz       3/25/2009 11:46:42 AM
20 years ago I walked into a pawn shop to buy something, When I intered the store I notice two men ( the owners ) laying
on the floor dead. I found out later that both men had been shot at close range thru the head and cheast with a 22lr, and that the purp had his rifle pointed at me when I walked thru the door but had run out of bullets when he pulled the trigger to shot me. He was in the storage room with the lights out hidding when I walked in. I DON"T GIVE A RATS BEHIND what anyone says about what a wimp a 22 round is! DEAD IS DEAD! And yes, both these men were armed but did not have a chance to draw there weapons before being KILLED, BY A 22!!!
 
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Ispose    Bullet performance   3/25/2009 3:43:36 PM
I shot a big Bull Moose back in 91. I was using a Remington 721 .300 H&H Magnum loaded with 180 gr Barnes X Bullets (These are solid copper bullets that expand but don't fragment)
The Moose was about 130 yds away and broadsides. I hit a rib going in, shattered it...hit the heart and blew it into 3 pieces...hit another rib going out and left a hole about 4" with lung tissue hanging in the brush behind him. He went about 5 ft out of reflex and fell over.
Now a .300 H&H is much more of a round than a 5.56 but it isn't that much more than a 7.62 NATO. Bottom line is that you won't get similar results from a 5.56 round.
A lot has been said about the modern US army using mainly single well placed shots in combat...this is because of better training, optics, etc. This means that the arguement that the 5.56 is more controllable in full auto and can carry more ammo fallacious...If you are using one shot at a time and beacuse of that you do not expend as much ammo...why not use a more lethel, harder hitting round?
The only downside to this arguement comes down to the squad machine gunner...do we want to go back to the M240 as the squad machine gun just to keep commonality in ammo caliber in the unit?
 
 
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WarNerd       3/26/2009 5:25:17 AM

A lot has been said about the modern US army using mainly single well placed shots in combat...this is because of better training, optics, etc. This means that the arguement that the 5.56 is more controllable in full auto and can carry more ammo fallacious...If you are using one shot at a time and beacuse of that you do not expend as much ammo...why not use a more lethel, harder hitting round?

You may not expend your ammo as quickly, but you will eventually run out.  If one side in a firefight runs out before the other, then they better have a safe line of retreat or they are SOL.
 
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