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Subject: Semi auto vs bolt action, sniper/dm weapon
towgunner1960    6/20/2004 11:21:03 PM
The majority opinion seems to be in favor of bolt action for snipers, and a heavy barreled version of the primary assault weapon equipped with scope or advanced sights for designated marksman. But can a semi auto do it all? I read an article in sof mag a while back and one of the quotes I remember said, " the bolt action rifle gets more kills per shot than a semi auto sniper rifle, but the semi auto gets more kills period". As far as accuracy, M-16 variants when tricked out are some of the most accurate miltary rifles in the world, comparable to any bolt action sniper rifle within its range. Its larger cousin the SR25 and M21 can be made to shoot 1/2 moa out of the box. Thats about as good as it gets. Using a set-up SR25 as an example, it can do any mission that a bolt action can, plus you have the capability of taking out larger amounts of infantry more quickly and much quicker follow up shots. You could even kill light armored vehicles with a 20 rd. magazine of ap. Try that with a bolt action. A half dozen of one, a dozen of the other. Thoughts???
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WinsettZ    RE:Semi auto vs bolt action, sniper/dm weapon   6/20/2004 11:58:42 PM
High accuracy semi-autos (like the PSG-1) come with a hefty price tag. Accurate bolt actions don't. Might be a factor in favor of bolt action. Semi-auto is more useful in more ways then a bolt action, but bolt action does have better accuracy at a more cost-effective price.
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Bigbro    RE:Semi auto vs bolt action, sniper/dm weapon   6/21/2004 8:23:45 PM
I think that you will find that in order to get a semi-auto to shoot as well as a well-tuned bolt gun you are going to have a lot of minimum tolerances in the chamber, bolt ect. I have an H-bar that is really accurate but the thing is so picky about ammo and being squeaky clean that the only thing I will use it for is high power matches. It has minimum dimension chamber and the bolt must be set up the same way. A well tuned bolt gun will also have tight deminsions but you can generaly cam a round in. This might be one of the reasons that bolt guns are still the hot ticket. Also I would wonder what the accurate life of a semi would be. You shoot them and they start to loosen up at some point. Another point is that generally snipers do not want to fire to many rounds from the same location. From what I have read I think the Marine's west coast rifle for the DM is the right way to go. Take an issue rifle that shoots a bit better than the others, scope it, give it to some one who is an above average rifleman and let them shoot it till they feel good about the set up. If you need to hit some one over 500 meters away then call the sniper with the M40. Bb
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towgunner1960    RE:Semi auto vs bolt action, sniper/dm weapon   6/21/2004 11:42:15 PM
BB, I also have a Colt pre-ban HBAR and I've never had problems with it jamming. It is an accurate sob though.
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Bigbro    RE:Semi auto vs bolt action, sniper/dm weapon   6/22/2004 8:11:25 AM
If I feed it good quality factory loads it doesn't jam. Ammo that I shoot in my three other .223's with no problems it does not like. even using small base reloading dies I have to only use once fired brass. I was shooting with a guy that had done work with the Army marksmanship unit and he would buy new brass and only fire it once. He also cleaned house on the rest of us in the matches. Bb
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Crosshair    RE:Semi auto vs bolt action, sniper/dm weapon   7/26/2004 3:16:03 AM
I agree with Bigbro, even playing video games, the good BF1942 snipers, myself included, move after about 3-5 rounds, depending on how long I have been in a spot. Also, with a bolt, you can manualy extract the round and remove it by hand. The last thing you want when you're in a consealed location is to have a nice reflective spent casing being thrown out of your weapon for 10 feet or so for the guy's that wern't in your crosshair to see.
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MikkoLn    RE:Semi auto vs bolt action, sniper/dm weapon   7/26/2004 7:36:33 AM
Well I haven’t got that much comparison background, since I’ve fired only one true sniper rifle for any longer period of time. Anyway, I feel that in infantry squad level accurate versions of ordinary semi-auto service rifles would do just fine. If you want to include a sniper in infantry squad, it seems much better idea to give him a relatively light rifle preferably derivative of the ones normally used as issue ar, equipped with sights to give him enhanced accuracy at longer ranges. In this role of maneuvering with ordinary troops heavy bolt action sniper rifle isn’t particularly effective at all, and semi-auto would be more flexible. Most nations however have service rifles reasonably effective up to needed ranges, maybe also equipped with additional sights, and for longer ranged fire heavy barrelled LMG/ar’s are preferred, as they couple reasonable accuracy with suppressive capability and volume of fire – all of which make specialist marksmen not necessarily worth their value in this context. For a dedicated sniper operating on his own and carrying out very specialized tasks, I must admit that I’m maybe a bit conservative in that I’d see bolt action as the right “tool” rather than just good weapon for him. In his role ability to carry on sustained fire isn’t one of importance (what it might be for infantry organic sniper described above) so in that manner bolt action isn’t in disadvantage. In most cases sniper would ideally prefer to fire a shot to kill, and then move his ass. About three shots can be done, but not much more to deny enemy it’s advantage to use firepower to pin him down. Definitely not ten not to speak of a full clip of more rounds. As it’s down to very singular shots, sniper would prefer a weapon maximising the effectiveness of that shot. From my limited experience, just the feel of grabbing a heavy barrelled, sound wooden sniper rifle and observing it’s bullet to fly directly where you pointed it out is a rather different feel to that of spreading rounds with a light plastic rifle. And even though semi-action sniper rifles might appear in use totally different to normal service rifles (that is not something I can comment on) I just can’t get the image out of my mind. Maybe I’m just stuck with my mind here and too old fashioned. I just can’t fade the image of a bolt action sniper rifle made with greatest care down to every stamp, manufactured in a way that just won’t make the weapon wear out and lose it’s accuracy and tailored to fit the body of individual…When I had fired first shots of my life with that kind of weapon, I just felt so confident that within the reach of my eye, I can do just anything without any major effort. No other weapon than bolt action has ever given me the same feel.
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