Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Weapons of the World Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: RPG Vs. AT-4
Kodiak    6/20/2003 10:40:26 AM
I've seen several comparisons between RPG's and 40mm grenade launchers on this site. IMO this seems to be unfair, comparing a rocket-motored munition with a smaller powder charge round. Of course the RPG will have more punch in this situation, but it is larger and not able to be put onto an M-16 (or I guess Kalishnikov would be applicable with respect to the RPG, still, can't be gone). If we are talking about comparing personal rocket launchers, then I submit the AT-4 is superior to the RPG in almost every aspect. Better accuracy, portability (it's shorter), range, and closing speed. And, of course, the standard high explosive warhead outperforms RPG's easily. Thoughts?
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: PREV  1 2 3 4 5   NEXT
mustavaris    RE:RPG Vs. AT-4 Russian lack of top attack missiles   6/27/2003 12:03:25 PM
One reason for the fact that Russians do not have top attack AT-missiles is the followinbg. They have found out that about 75% of the ATGMs are fired against non-MBT targets- which do not require top-attack weapon. In fact, many of them are fired at bunkers etc. And top-attack missiles are hard and expensive technology. The price is not a problem with US armed forces so they can use them and their tevhnology is also better.
 
Quote    Reply

mustavaris    RE:RPG Vs. AT-4 Russian lack of top attack missiles   6/27/2003 12:03:30 PM
One reason for the fact that Russians do not have top attack AT-missiles is the followinbg. They have found out that about 75% of the ATGMs are fired against non-MBT targets- which do not require top-attack weapon. In fact, many of them are fired at bunkers etc. And top-attack missiles are hard and expensive technology. The price is not a problem with US armed forces so they can use them and their tevhnology is also better.
 
Quote    Reply

Vympel    RE:RPG-29 vs M3 MAAWS   6/27/2003 10:21:04 PM
Going from data from the M2 (the M3 is a lightweight version) it's not as good for the armor killing role as the latest RPG-7 or RPG-29 because it's calibre is fixed at 84mm (the RPG-7 is a 40mm weapon, but it uses over-calibre rockets- and while the RPG-29 isn't over-calibre it's a 105mm weapon). It's tandem charge HEAT warhead (FFV 751) is capable of over 500m+ RHA in comparison to the 750mm+ RHA (if the target doesn't have ERA it's 850mm+ RHA) of the Vampir. It's single charge HEAT (FFV 551) can penetrate 400mm RHA. It's more versatile though, it has those two HEAT rounds as well as HEDP (High Explosive Dual Purpose, with anti-personnel and the ability to kill light armor- 150mm RHA) HE, smoke and illumination rounds. The RPG-29 currently only has PG-29V rounds. It's range using anti-tank and HEDP warheads is about the same- the single HEAT warhead though has an effective range of 700m (the more powerful tandem is 500m, presumably because it's heavier). It's HE and other rounds have considerably longer effective ranges because dead-on accuracy isn't required for their targets (infantry in the open etc)
 
Quote    Reply

Brock    RE:RPG-29 vs M3 MAAWS   7/2/2003 10:01:51 AM
The M3 MAAWS in US Army parlance or Karl Gustav Mk.3 is an incredible weapon. However, you are wrong about its capabilities in one respect. The M3 MAAWS has the capacity for an over-calibre munition dual-charge warhead. SAAB/Borfors Defence has developed a new round where one puts in rocket mortor in the normal loading area of the M-3 MAAWS and then plugs in the over-calibre warhead at the front. I could be wrong about the penetration of 900mm+ of RHA, but I know the round has been developed. However, the major fault of this system--that I have used--is its lack of ability to be fired in a confined space. The AT-4 comes in confined space version and the Javelin does too. The reduced back blast dramatically increases saftey to friendlies (soldier & civvies), while reducing weapons signature, and flexability.
 
Quote    Reply

AlbanyRifles    RE:RPG-29 vs M3 MAAWS   7/2/2003 10:57:46 AM
FYI, JAVELIN can be direct attack or top attack. Gunner can choose so you can hit a bunker aperture or a turret.
 
Quote    Reply

SOBR    RE:RPG-29 vs M3 MAAWS   11/28/2003 9:02:28 AM
The Javin and the Predator are a higher level class of ATGM's. The RPG or any heavier weapons like the AT-4 or Carl Gustav are for 1 Inf. man advanicing on the battlefield and attacking any kinds of targets (tanks, armorded cars, bunkers). The range, accurance and the penetration of the newest RPG grenades for example. PG-7V1 is very good, so this weapon will stay the standard AT missile of the russians. But the Javelin, is a bigger system, i think 3 men are needed to set-up the Javelin station... You have to compare the fighting situation of the 2 armies, the USA has got a strong "fleet" of Tanks/Chopper combination, this thick layer of attacking the enemy. Imagine a desert (Iraq, Egypt, north Afrika), 500 Abrams in 1 line, Apaches and littlebirdls in the Air, CruiseMissile systems ready, satelite infos ready.... and so on... the enemy is taken out at a far distance, so the javelin system is a need of the western guys, the dont "realy" need "close-attack ATs" - the M72 LAW and the M3 are good enough for their art to battle. But in russia, a RPG is the best varian, forests, hills, grass and so on.... A Metis system wouldnt work in such a surrounding. You know what i mean. The RPGs range is 300 at moving vehicles and about 500 m at stationary targets, the penetration is (different grenades) 400-750 mm RHA. But at all, im the same opinion as Vympel !!!
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust    RE:RPG-29 vs M3 MAAWS   11/28/2003 4:20:20 PM
If we are looking at a "bang for buck" approach then doesn't the RPG come out a winner? I think the Stockholm Institute for Peace estimates that there are some 80million derivatives of the AK47-74 family in circulation. I'd be curious to see what they estimate on RPG's. In a high tech world the counter threat to dumb ordinance is problem. Black boxes don't resolve probs with RPG shooters when FIBUA. Ever seen those shots of Mudj wearing bandoleers of RPG's? They look like the 21st century version of Pancho Villas gang. My point is, is that if the ordinance is dumb and effective, and cheap - plus the fact that the shooters are getting smarter and more creative at using them - then doesn't that make the RPG the more serious weapon to counter in a given threat environment (and lets assume we are dealing with COIN-terrorist scenarios) The effectiveness of a weapon is more than just its range and striking power, its also its cost, ease of use, access and quantity at large. The danger of an RPG is that it does the job, and that (given enough time and patience) you could train a monkey to use it. Its a very very cheap force multiplier.
 
Quote    Reply

WinsettZ    RE:RPG-29 vs M3 MAAWS   11/29/2003 3:51:25 PM
RPGs are reloadable, RPGs can be used by a person solo, but usually another guy goes with RPG gunner to protect and carry extra rounds. A MAAWS might be usable by a single person like the RPG, depending on some other stuff. Does it load from muzzle like a RPG or from the rear like the old Bazookas?
 
Quote    Reply

Stealth    Information on the At-4 anti tank weapon.   1/1/2004 6:49:20 AM
i have taken the time to get some info on the AT-4 so please have a look. --Primary function: Light anti-armor weapon Manufacturer: FFV Ordnance, Sweden and Alliant Techsystems Launcher. Length..................... 1,020 mm (40 inches) Weight (Complete System) .. 6.7 kg (14.8 pounds) Rear Sight................. Range indicator, graduated in 50-meter increments Rocket. Caliber ................... 84 mm Muzzle Velocity............ 290 mps (950 fps) Length .................... 460 mm (18 inches) Weight..................... 1.8 kg (4 pounds) Minimum Range Training ........... 30 meters (100 feet) Combat ................. 10 meters (33 feet) Arming.................. 10 meters (33 feet) Maximum Range ............. 2,100 meters (6,890 feet) Maximum Effective Range ... 300 meters (985 feet) Penetration: 400 mm of rolled homogenous armor Time of Flight (to 250 meters): less than 1 second Muzzle velocity: 950 feet (285 meters) per second Operating temperature: -104 to +140° F (-40 to +60°C) Ammunition: Rocket with shaped charge warhead Unit Replacement Cost: $1,480.64
 
Quote    Reply

crna_zvezda    RE:RPG Vs. AT-4   1/14/2004 9:21:36 AM
"an RPG is accurate for 100 meters" Huh are you sure? Man accuracy for RLR's (Recoiless rifles) depends on two specifications. The weather conditions and the stance of the target. If teh target is on the move RPG or AT 4 have enormous troubles on hitting the target. The range for the latest PG grenades variants is 350m Normal oldies about 200/250 m. Then teh RPG is comparison with newer technologies is still a good choice, it's a magistral ambush weapon and used efectyvely can be deadly for wider and harder targes.
 
Quote    Reply
PREV  1 2 3 4 5   NEXT



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics