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Subject: Sniper rifle
oldbutnotwise    12/23/2003 10:30:06 AM
Best and why? personal choice the accuracy International as its the first to besigned as a sniper rifle rather than a modification of an existing rifle
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towgunner1960    RE:Sniper rifle   12/24/2003 10:43:33 PM
Remington 700, basis of the AI rifle. Most prolific, copied, accurate sniper rifle in the world......
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Heorot    RE:Sniper rifle   12/25/2003 6:42:18 AM
But the Accuracy International .338 is a purpose designed sniper rifle firing a purpose designed sniper round. Is quite expensive and hasn't been around very long. I believe that forces that are prepared to make the investment should move to this weapon.
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oldbutnotwise    RE:Sniper rifle   12/29/2003 1:20:23 AM
The AI was based on a full blown target rifle, the 700 is a militrized hunting rifle. what makes you say the most accurate? the only comparative test i have seen put it 4th behined the AI, a russian that I cant remmeber the name of and think the 3rd was german.
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Diablo_45    RE:Sniper rifle   12/31/2003 9:46:58 AM
My guess is probobly the H&K PSG-1 its suppose to be the most accurate off the self semi-automatic rifle...but it does have its flaws..the basic package is roughly $10,000 USD...and the rifle wieghts quite alot , 18 KG I believe , which is why the sniper rifle rarely saw any action in the military except for a few special forces groups fix the problem of wieght and such H&K made a cheaper equivilant to the PSG-1 which is the MSG-90 its suppose to be just as accurate.
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ChdNorm    Remington 700   12/31/2003 12:54:55 PM
First off, I'm not a sniper, never been one ... dont really care to ever be either. I do have an interest in long range marksmanship though and find the Remington 700 a very very good rifle. Compared to a PSG1 you could buy 12 and carry about 5 for the same cost and wieght. Even the basic L96 costs about six to seven times as much. I've got an off the rack 700PSS that will hold .5 to .75 MOA with factory ammo, and just a smidge better with handloads ... and thats with me yanking on the trigger! I've seen them do better with people that actually know how to shoot. I cant see the justification of cost and additional wieght of the others mentioned adding much, if anything to filling its intended role. The simplicity, accuracy, and ruggedness of the 700 is comparable to anything else out there. As far as one being better than another based on what it was originally designed for, I don't really see the logic in that being a deciding factor. Performance is really all that matters. However, the Remington 700 is actually a descendant of the P-14/P-17 enfields. So its actual lineage is traced to a military rifle instead of stricly a commercial hunting rifle.
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Stealth    RE:Sniper rifle   1/1/2004 6:38:09 AM
Personally the sniper rife that i like the best is the M1A Berreta 5.0 cal. it was used through out desert strom and was proven to be very affective in desert terrain. it was also proven to take out targets more than a mile away with out stading damage to the victim.
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Heorot    RE:Remington 700   1/1/2004 7:07:08 AM
Stealth. The .50 calibre round is an old design and not particularly accurate. The Barrett ( I presume that this is what you meant) is sold as a long range anti-materiel gun. It is easier to hit a truck at a mile with this round than a man, although it’s devastating if you do. ChdNorm I didn’t realise that the Remington 700 was a descendant of the P-14/P-17 enfields. You say its actual lineage is traced to a military rifle instead of stricly a commercial hunting rifle but if you look at the original P14, you will see the following. Target shooters in the military hugely criticised the Lee Enfield when it was introduced complaining that it was inaccurate at long ranges because it was too short (an assertion that proved to be totally incorrect). As a result of this criticism, the P14 was designed with extreme range accuracy as a major design feature. We appear to have come full circle.
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ChdNorm    RE:Remington 700   1/1/2004 10:42:59 PM
The lineage of the 700 coming from the P-14/P-17s resulted from Remington being the prime contractor for producing those rifles for the British and American forces for WW1. After the war Remington still had the tooling, so they began producing a commercial version (which at that time was mainly just removing the dog ears to protect the rear sight and restocking). It was a pretty steady development from that point which led to the 700s we have today. My understanding of the post-WW1 rifle situation in the American Army is that the P-17 Enfield damn near replaced the 03's. They were found superior in almost all regards save the one that wound up killing it. The target range. The P-14/P-17s lack windage adjustment for the rear sight. The front sight is adjusted on a dovetail keyway to obtain zero, after that ... its all about kentucky windage in use. The 03's (earlier than the 03A3's) had what was essentially a target sight by design (which makes for a pretty poor battle sight in my experiance). It was the National Matches of the 20's that led to Springfileds reputation for accuracy. By all accounts the P-17s in American hands during WW1 (which far outnumbered the 03's sent overseas) actually performed better in service. Just ask Alvin York!
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JROTCKid    RE:Remington 700   1/1/2004 10:58:57 PM
My uncle has built an AI from a kit with a Remington 700 PSS in 7.62x51 NATO and he claims it does hold under .5 . Iv yet to shoot it . Ive been offered the Remington 700 PSS when he removes it to add a diff rifle . The PSS with its old stock for 500. Is this a good deal? My pick for accuracy sniper is a pre 64 Winchester 70 in 30-06 . My neighboer handloads i believe up to 300 grains (i might be wrong) in his and gets astonishing kills on bucks .
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ChdNorm    JROTC   1/3/2004 1:22:42 PM
$500 for a used 700PSS is about right. It being family, I'd play the cash starved student sympathy card and see what you could get for $400 though! Since it is already out of the stock, you might look at the mcmillan A-4 or A-5 stocks. Theyre pricey, but I think worth every penny for all the adjustments you can do to make it fit you perfectly. The factory stock is excellent and very servicable, I just find it doesnt fit me personally very well. I like the Pre-64 model 70's as far as hunting rifles go. I've had an ongoing love affair with a pre-64 featherwieght in 6.5X55 that I'm pretty sure my wife is jealous as hell of. I wouldnt rank them up there with the best in accuracy though. Mainly because the technology of the time wasnt what it is now. Things such as vastly better modern metalurgy, stock design (pillar bedded and floated synthetic versus fully inletted and stressed wood stocks), better and faster lockwork, as well as way better barrels on new guns make the model 70s lack a little in actual side by side shooting. Theres just something about the pre-64 model 70s that are like a work of art in the same vien as a 62' Corvette ... a timeless classic, but not something you would put up against a new Z-06. I think you may be off a little on the bullet wieght for the 06' load too. 220 grains is about the heaviest you can go in the 30-06' ... even thats a little heavy for non-magnum .30cal rifle rounds. Us being from nieghboring states our deer cant be much different in body mass. You probably know our deer over here next door to you are more like large German Shephards than they are like Mulies or Elk. I would say the 150 gr is more than adequate in the .30-06 for anything you'll run across down here in our part of the world.
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