Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Space Operations Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: US: Broken Satellite Will Be Shot Down
DarthAmerica    2/14/2008 12:29:08 PM
WASHINGTON (AP) - U.S. officials say the Pentagon is planning to shoot down a broken spy satellite expected to hit the Earth in early March. The Associated Press has learned that the option preferred by the Bush administration will be to fire a missile from a U.S. Navy cruiser, and shoot down the satellite before it enters Earth's atmosphere. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the options will not be publicly discussed until a Pentagon briefing later Thursday. Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. ********************************************************************* Wow. And from a USN ship no less. The implications of this are enourmous. Also, what a slick way a great to sneak in test of ASAT capability. -DA
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6   NEXT
Herald12345    A shot across the bow.   2/14/2008 12:48:29 PM
Its a reminder to some chest thumpers as to with whom they deal, Darth.

Never forget that when you rub the other guy's face in it, it has two effects.

It puts naked fear into him which is a GOOD thing.

And it lets the rest of the world know that while you are a quiet guy, its best not to upset you, you might get angry.

Propaganda has its place in war. Yes; Darth, we are at "cold" war, now.

Teddy Roosevelt response.

Herald


 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica    AH HA!!! Gotcha Herald!   2/14/2008 1:44:09 PM
You fell into a Darth trap! I try to take a more diplomatic approach to posting but I knew you would monitor this board. I figured it would be a 50/50 chance that either you or EW3 would say what I was thinking. Now that the cat is out of the bag. I hope the Russians and PRC are paying CLOSE ATTENTION. On this board, we have only speculated about the possibilities of the missile defense system. It seems now that the U.S. Navy is tipping it's hand that the systems true capabilities are greatly understated and if we really wanted to...well, the test(oops) the shoot down of the "disabled" satellite is an indication of much greater potential.
 
On a side note, the U.S. Navy is in a lot of ways the United States and the worlds premier military service. It controls all of the worlds oceans above and below, the skies above those waters, the electromagnatic spectrum anywhere, a very effective SOF capability, a poweful survivable nuclear force and also controls the space above it all. It can extend all of these capabilities for great distances overland when necessary.
 
-DA
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica    In the "black"   2/14/2008 2:46:29 PM
What about the possibility that the AEGIS doesn't have to be the "shooter"? Of course I'm hinting to something...bigger. I'm not saying it isn't in this case but what if...
 
 
 
-DA 
 
Quote    Reply

Alexis       2/14/2008 3:51:51 PM

What about the possibility that the AEGIS doesn't have to be the "shooter"? Of course I'm hinting to something...bigger. I'm not saying it isn't in this case but what if...
-DA 


An interesting what if indeed.
If the launcher is a Standard missile the likes which is fired from Aegis warships, then though a capability is demonstrated and the political message is clear enough, the fact is that the test is far less impressive than the one conducted by China.
 
The ASAT interception that China performed was at an altitude over 800 km, consistent with that e.g. of imaging military satellites. By contrast, the Standard missile cannot reach such an altitude and is limited to interception just above the atmosphere.
 
Therefore:
 
- Either the US are merely making a political statement, and using a system with marginal ASAT capability for that (the lower hypothesis)
 
- Or the US are testing a system which is in fact much more capable than a Standard missile could ever be, and using this opportunity to live-test it without incurring too much political "flak"
 
Impossible to know which possibility is true.
 
However, I personnally find it very hard to believe that the US haven't got an operational ASAT system now. The second possibility does seem very credible.
 
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345       2/14/2008 4:06:29 PM




What about the possibility that the AEGIS doesn't have to be the "shooter"? Of course I'm hinting to something...bigger. I'm not saying it isn't in this case but what if...

-DA 




An interesting what if indeed.

If the launcher is a Standard missile the likes which is fired from Aegis warships, then though a capability is demonstrated and the political message is clear enough, the fact is that the test is far less impressive than the one conducted by China.

 

The ASAT interception that China performed was at an altitude over 800 km, consistent with that e.g. of imaging military satellites. By contrast, the Standard missile cannot reach such an altitude and is limited to interception just above the atmosphere.

 

Therefore:

 

- Either the US are merely making a political statement, and using a system with marginal ASAT capability for that (the lower hypothesis)

 

- Or the US are testing a system which is in fact much more capable than a Standard missile could ever be, and using this opportunity to live-test it without incurring too much political "flak"

 

Impossible to know which possibility is true.

 

However, I personnally find it very hard to believe that the US haven't got an operational ASAT system now. The second possibility does seem very credible.

 

Interesting points.

I would hardly consider hitting a satellite in a crossing shot in descent phase with a Standard to be insignificant. In fact I regard that as a HTK feat worth of considerable note far more difficult than orbital rendezvous and proximity blast be near approach. By comparison, the PRC ASAT exercise, which they publicly admit they bungled, as they claim they did not expect the dispersal of so much debris across so wide an orbital plane [a palpable lie as anyone with basic physics or rudimentary understanding of orbital mechanics could have predicted the dispersal spread] The shot was as I pointed out at the time was a pure act of piracy, and not a well executed one technically at that.

I stand by my estimate, no matter what the PC cover story is.

Herald

 

 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica    Alexis Reply   2/14/2008 4:15:16 PM
What I'm getting at is that the SM-3 is simply just one possible choice of kill vehicle. The sensors and the network connecting them is what impresses me. If this part of the system has reached maturity. Much more capable weapons could be integrated into the system. Think about it a bit and you might see what the possibilities are. Especially factoring in the mobile nature of the systems kill mechanisms potential firing platforms. I'm being coy for a reason...;)
 
 
-DA
 
Quote    Reply

displacedjim       2/14/2008 4:16:56 PM


Interesting points.

I would hardly consider hitting a satellite in a crossing shot in descent phase with a Standard to be insignificant. In fact I regard that as a HTK feat worth of considerable note far more difficult than orbital rendezvous and proximity blast be near approach. By comparison, the PRC ASAT exercise, which they publicly admit they bungled, as they claim they did not expect the dispersal of so much debris across so wide an orbital plane [a palpable lie as anyone with basic physics or rudimentary understanding of orbital mechanics could have predicted the dispersal spread] The shot was as I pointed out at the time was a pure act of piracy, and not a well executed one technically at that.

I stand by my estimate, no matter what the PC cover story is.

Herald

 



 
I admit it's not really my area, but it seems to me it's true that hitting that satellite as it's burning in at what, probably 100km+ altitude and Mach umptyump would not demonstrate an ASAT capabilty, but it would demonstrate an ATBM and even ABM capability second to none.

 
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       2/14/2008 4:18:24 PM
whats being missed is that a ship based ASAT kill will close the cirlce.  The US will have been the only country to conduct ASAT kills from Sea, Land and Air.
 
It's a message stick.
 
As for the chinese tests being impressive, I guess I'm one of the few who continue to be bemused at a capability that the russians and americans pulled off a quarter of a century ago.
 
when china demonstrates laser comms/targetting at 330,000 miles (like the US has for the last 39 years), or sends up a hubble, or develops a space shuttle (the ultimate satellite tow truck) or sends out a mars probe, or discovers new deep space events, then I'll start to react to issues of latency.
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

kevintk       2/14/2008 5:51:42 PM
How would the ship get to the right spot on time?

If a Standard is used, wouldn't the ship have to be within a relatively small area, the reasonably precise  location of which would be hard to determine much in advance ??
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345       2/14/2008 7:54:52 PM

How would the ship get to the right spot on time?

If a Standard is used, wouldn't the ship have to be within a relatively small area, the reasonably precise  location of which would be hard to determine much in advance ??

Just as an answer to you PRC bandits reading this, imagine what you have to do to pull that feat off.

You'd have to be able to asteroid rendezvous at a separation distance of more than ten light seconds  and fire an impactor at  delta sub1 Mach 10 into a target circle 80 meters in area into that asteroid as you flyby for example.

Or predict the dropbasket of a satellite weeks in advance in a Martian decaying orbit.

Or..........

You get the idea.

Pleasant delusions, bandits.

Herald
 
Quote    Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6   NEXT



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics