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Subject: Russian T90 vs. US M1A2 Abrams
achtpanz    6/14/2004 3:59:14 AM
Russian T90 vs American M1A2 Abrams - Which is better? If these tanks fought in battle, which would suffer more casualties, which one is superior? What are their advantages? Any information would be helpful.
 
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world at war       2/8/2009 3:53:25 PM
dude america will invade russia along so will canada/ germany /japan /poland /australia/ the united kingdom/ and israil/ all of these countrys will get ur stupid country on there knees and then we will capture ur stupid discrace president putin and make him kiss the US flag....then while ur stupid country begs for mercy and there on there knees .......then we WILL EXCICUTE UR STUPID DISCRACED COUNTRY UR STUPID DISCRACD PRESIDENThttp://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emkulou.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" /> AND UR!!!!!!!!!! STUPID!!!!!!!!DISCRACED!!!!!!!!!!!! ARMY WHICH IS IN THE GUTTER ALL UR STUPID COUNTRY WANTS WAR U THRETAN EVERYONE WITH WAR AMERICA CAN DO WAT EVER THE FUCK WE WANT U CANT CAUSE IF U DO WE WILL KICK UR ASS http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emangry.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" />
 
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strat-T21C    World at War   2/19/2009 1:22:44 PM
Calm down, easy on the language and crudness, a rant like that just makes a person ignore you.
 
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strat-T21C    deisel vs turbine   2/19/2009 1:27:45 PM




Herald, in all fairness, T-90 is a vastly improved T-72B. The main survivability issue is the lack of separate ammunition stowage. The turret greatly reduces the traditional weakened zones, particularly now that the Luna-4 IR searchlight (to the right of the main gun) has been dispensed with. The welded turret (T-90A) introduces a very homogenous frontal projection.



 



I'm certainly not disputing that the Western tanks are superior, but the T-90 is no slouch either. 




Apples and oranges Bery. A tank army of T-90s with the well trained crews to go with it will make mincemeat out of a tank army equipped with M-1s operated by tyros. Combined arms drill. India with T-90s for example against Pakistan with something like M-1s? I'd say that the Indians would tear the Paks to shreds. It isn't my tank is tougher than your tank, Its my tank army knows how to exploit its gear and overcome its weaknesses to win and yours doesn't.   .



Lighter tank and better infantry killing gun? In that Indian Pakistani terrain? Use the T-90 tank to kill infantry and exploit your terrain crossing advantages and use your other anti-tank weapons and air power to stop M-1s, or at least keep them away from your T-90s which will be swarming in his rear and shooting up his supply lines. No gas-no M-1 equipped tank army. When they become ALL infasntry, then the T-90 comes into its own.


 

Like always-different does not mean INFERIOR. It means DIFFERENT.  

 

Its just that I get tired of the fanboys and their jousting scenarios, you know?


 

Herald


 




 


The deisel, in my view/experiance is a good engine that can operate in desert conditions given proper filtration. It also possesses more raw low end tourque. Maybe not the Russian motor, but German MTU doesn't quit, even when operating breaching equipment.
 
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Slim Pickinz       2/19/2009 11:16:03 PM
Please world at war, just go away. This is a serious discussion board, not a forum for undereducated over-opinionated people who spam insults that read like they're written by a 12 years old.
 
Go away. Or at least shut the hell up and listen to the people who actually know what they're talking about (i.e. Herald), rather than just rehashing basic information you gleaned off of Wikpedia.
 
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SLEEPSUX    Just for the record...   2/22/2009 2:40:09 PM
Not only is world at war probably 12 but I doubt he is even American.  All too often anti-american people get on these boards and pretend to be an American shouting crap about invading here or killing people there.  Just shut up. Go away. This place is for real, rational debate. 
 
Anyway, sorry about the brief rant.  Here is my question:  After recently getting out of the military and seeing the drastic electronics heavy direction the military is taking, does this debate really matter?  It's fun to read and I do enjoy it but I am absolutely positive that in a decade or two warfare is going to be relagated to who can play video games better?  I guess all points are still valid and the matter of who has a better crew will still be important but again it will just be who has a turbo button on their gamepad. Lol.  Excellent arguments all round the board but I agree with teh apples to oranges approach.
 
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netsci    world at war, your mother is whore   3/19/2009 3:16:39 PM

God forbid to meet in fight the deadly Russian tank. No aircraft carrier can accept on the board such quantity of coffins with the American suckers. Ò-90 is a legendary tank which fired the advanced shells, and assbrams burnt down in Iraq usual become outdated RPG-7 and RPG-9. Shells Ò-72 already are removed 30 years ago from arms, therefore to compare assbrams with Ò-72 stupidly!

world at war, I your mother fuck in a mouth and in an ass. Suck my dick, a heap of a shit the uneducated...

 
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HERALD1357    A Russian version of Tiger Tony?   3/19/2009 3:29:04 PM

God forbid to meet in fight the deadly Russian tank. No aircraft carrier can accept on the board such quantity of coffins with the American suckers. Ò-90 is a legendary tank which fired the advanced shells, and assbrams burnt down in Iraq usual become outdated RPG-7 and RPG-9. Shells Ò-72 already are removed 30 years ago from arms, therefore to compare assbrams with Ò-72 stupidly!


world at war, I your mother fuck in a mouth and in an ass. Suck my dick, a heap of a shit the uneducated...



Don't try to figure it out. Just hold your breath for ten minutes and it will all be better soon. No more pain between the ears when you try to think for example.

Herald
 

 
 
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afrikan_neekeri       3/19/2009 3:45:28 PM
"
The deisel, in my view/experiance is a good engine that can operate in desert conditions given proper filtration. It also possesses more raw low end tourque. Maybe not the Russian motor, but German MTU doesn't quit, even when operating breaching equipment."
 
Actually the T-72's V46 engine needed less maintenance than the MTU powerpack. The difference is that you can make a complete engine change in a Leo in about 15-30 mins but the T-72 can take several hours due to the idiotic layout of the transmission. The Russians have always made tank  (as well as aircraft- and other military vehicle-)engines that work in any weather.
 
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HERALD1357       3/19/2009 11:11:50 PM

"


The deisel, in my view/experiance is a good engine that can operate in desert conditions given proper filtration. It also possesses more raw low end tourque. Maybe not the Russian motor, but German MTU doesn't quit, even when operating breaching equipment."

 

Actually the T-72's V46 engine needed less maintenance than the MTU powerpack. The difference is that you can make a complete engine change in a Leo in about 15-30 mins but the T-72 can take several hours due to the idiotic layout of the transmission. The Russians have always made tank  (as well as aircraft- and other military vehicle-)engines that work in any weather.


In RUSSIA. Mideast and South Asia is something different as EVERYBODY found out. Silica and aluminum sand destroys everything. Russian tanks did worse than British and American, just not that much worse as the propaganda always claims. Figure a Russian diesel would do better than an American turbine, but not according to the Indians who had to urge the Russians to upgrade their standard air filters filters on everything on the T-90s the Russians  supplied.. Not to say the Russian tanks aren't reliable, the fact is that you have to have first class users to get a baseline on how well the tanks actually perform.
 
US tanks outrun their Russian built opponents because we take better care of them than our enemies take care of theirs.  Put a Pak Army and and Indian Army with American and Russian equipment respectively and you know which army will have the paper weights first? CREF above what I said above about training. Incompetents will ruin the BEST equipment issued to them.
 
Herald
 
 
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afrikan_neekeri       3/20/2009 1:06:57 AM
A gas turbine can withstand gas much better than a diesel. The turbine blades will take some damage but they are replaceable. If very fine sand somehow gets inside the valves/cylindres of a diesel engine, you need a whole new engine.
It's pretty stupid from the russian exporters that they didn't care about the filtration issue. An easy-to-fix minimal cost thing like that...

And of course the US tank forces could overrun pretty much every tank force on the planet. The US army has 7620 M1s and the marines some 400. Russian armed forces had (2006) 21820 operational tanks of which only 150 were T-90s and about 1400 T-80s. Bundeswehr used to have 2350 leos but now they have only 400. Nobody really knows about the PLA tank corps but it's estimated to have about 7000 tanks in total of which only a few hundred are Type 98/99. ROK has about 1500 K1s.

Those numbers tell that the United States of America hold by far the largest fleet of modern tanks, almost as many as all the modern tanks in the rest of the world put together. Add to this the huge logistics network that is kept in condition due to the wars, all the experience from the Gulf War 1 and 2, a sufficient amount of well-trained tank crews and mechanics and the best OPFOR in the world, etc... Oh and the United States have the equipment to get a significant amount of those tanks anywhere in the world in a few weeks, something the Heer(for example) would struggle to achieve. So yeah, no surprise that a force like that in the 73 easting made mincemetal out of outdated T-72 export versions with their some of their crews outside their vehicles (wtf?), literally their pants around their ankles and the tanks that got a chance to fire fired outdated HEAT with half charges of propellant..... Way to scrape some paint off an M1.

 That being said it annoys me so much that plain objective data from NATO/PLA/Russian tanks is so hard to find. Just because the United States has the best tank forces around doesn't mean that M1A*s would be any better than some other tanks.
 
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