Hey Cdn, I think your comments are generally accurate and most of us listen to well thought out comments with good support. Especially from other operators. The only reason I'm reacting so strongly on the Australian tank thread is because the comments being made show a distinct misunderstanding of operational reality as well as being based on "facts" that I disagree with. I disagree with those facts because of my operational experience not because I'm an American defending my country's tank and being a nationalist patriot.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. It would be useful, however, if you could specify your chronology: You mentioned that you saw the Abrams A1, but were not familiar with the A2. May I infer that the Merks you've seen were Mk. II's and not the more recent and more sophisticated Mk III's?

Plenty of time yet for that to happen. :) Cheers!

Which, just proves my point:). the only thing Leclerc might be good for is close mech. infanftry support, if that. And not really much of a benefit in an independent long term action, like a breakthrough, because of the potential engine and computer FCS problems.

Why do most of you say that every country has Chobam armor? Only the British have Chobam army it was there design and after that more country's came with special armor (laminated) And who says that Leopard2 has an export version of Chobam doesn't have anything to say about armor because this is bull,German KMW has developed his own ''special'' armor like the shaped front armor,that armor is empty,when a Sabot or high Kenetic energy rounds penetrate that armor the empty space inside stops all the hot metal before it is coming at the basic leopard2a4 armor,also that shaped ''empty'' armor has materials in it that can chage the course of the enemy tank round...how this works i dont know exactly... So who thinks that the Leopard has got export chobam armor must leave this topic because he dont knows anything about it!

Leo's use RHA, not Chobham.

You are right they aren't using Chobam like i said in my previous post,but most of the people think Leopard-Abrams-Challenger-Merkava-... are all using the same armor Chobam! Its a British design not an German-Israeli-American design,the UK has designed it and SOME other country's have made a simulair armor! And how can you compair a Leclerc with a Bradley? mwuhahaha Thats just so stupid,i think the little boy that said that has alot to learn about tanks. I dont see 50Tons on a Bradley,i dont see the same engine on a Bradley and i don't see a 120MM gun on the Bradley. The Leclerc is a Main Battle Tank (MBT) just like the M1-Chally-Leo etc etc etc Its a MBT not a medium tank it is tested and has gain 4th place in worlds best tank rating... People that say M! and Chally are proven in REAL combat...WHERE!!! Oh yeah i can think of something. Very Very old Iraqi T-55 tanks that where out of ammunition ayway when the Abrams and challenger's arrived,o yeah they had some digged in T-72 tanks to,that where probably out of fuel. I think all these tanks can be proven in battle by shooting at eachother,not versus that Russian junk! The only thing that is really proven is FCS in tank competitions. And in these competitions the Leopard came 1st place all the time.

How do you mean strategic mobility is poor? They where meant to compete with tanks like the M1-chally etc etc Germany and Sweden aren't the only country's using the Leopard2 Greece-Austria-Netherlands etc etc The Netherlands and Germany are the only country's using the Leo2A6... I think Canada is about the only country still using the OLDER Leopard1 like Belgium does. The Swedisch STRV 122 is maybe better than the M1A2SEP,its armor-mobility-FCS is better than that of the A6 It has many special warnings systems and that kind of thinks... I also read that somebody sayed the M1A2 can attack helicopters,the Lepard-Chally etc etc can attack Heli's too!

I got out of the army in '01, so my experience is dated to tanks of that period. The Merkava I played with was a Mark III. The only M1A2 I ever saw was a prototype, reconditioned M1 hull, with a new built turret, with the new FCS, armour, and digitalisation.

Jeffrey, there is only one country in the world using the Leo2A6, and that is Germany. The Leo2A6 is basically a cheaper version of the Swedish 122, with less belly and top armour. I equate strategic mobility with the means to get, and sustain, the equipment to a theatre outside of your own zone of influence. The Leo 1 has great strategic mobility, because parts are available from any one of 22 countries that own the tank, and they are much easier to move and supply, being close to half the weight of the modern front line MBT's. As an aside, the armour on the Leo2A6 is not hollow! It is very similar to the add-on armour packages available to the Leo 1, and is produced by IBD. I don't think I can say how it works, because of security.