>>"Ever heard the phrase "the Presidents own"<< Actually that phrase refers to the Marine Corps band. Supposedly cannot leave Washington D.C. without Presidential approval. THe USMC has not had a very good relationsship with Special ops type units. There was and institutional hostility to what the Marine Corps sees as forming an elite within an elite. FDR had to just about force them to form Raider units in World War II. These units did not finish the war and were absorbed into the "regular" Marine Corps. Even Force Recon at times was treated as an unwanted stepchild. From my own experience in the early 80s 2nd Force Recon was administratively under the 2nd FSSG and Operationally under FMFLANT. Commns Sense would have suggested they should have been at least administratively under 2nd MARDIV. The Marine Corps has its own "SPecial Ops" units has Defined by the Corps not SOCOM. FAST teams, Force Recon, Snipers ets. All MEUs go through a certification process that designates them (SOC) Special Operations Capability. In my opinion, while every Marine Infantry Battalion is not equal to a Ranger Battalion every one that completes its MEU (SOC) trainup prior to deployment is. After Deployment unit attrition, admin and maintenance demands lessen its capability till the next train up. It is a poor staement on the Mairne Corps the their SOCOM members have to go through SEAL school to be certified for SOCOM. In a just and proper world SEALS should be at least getting their basic Infantry training from the Corps and advanced training at Amphib Recon School and the SF Water Infiltration Course (Which the Corps ran with the Army). Rangers are not required to go through SEAL schoool to be part of SOCOM. For my money anybody who has been thorugh the Marine COrps Sniper Instructor course at Quantico does not need SEAL School to be able to operate in SOCOM. Neither should a FORCE RECON members who has been through the Ranger and Amphib Recon/Water Infil courses. To me the ultimate answer is the creation of another Branch of Service that will handle all Strategic Special Operations. There is no reason for each Service to have its own Special ops units many with overlapping capabilites. When you look at Rangers , Green Berets, SEALS, Force Recon. You see many overlapping capabilites although some mission differences. A Special Ops branch would recruit its members mostly form the regualr units of the other Serivces including its aviation components. They would all go through a single certification course, perhopaps Ranger School. Folowing that they would go onto more specialized triang. There would be deep recon units, SF type units, Amphib Seal type units etc. In addition Airborne Battalion Task Forces and Marine Expeditionary Units would be required to go through joint training exercise withe SOCOM uits under SOCOM command. Perhaps the 82nd adn the Marine Corps should also be placed under this new Branch. Operationally, in the real world all the service Branches are under a theater commander anyway which exercises more control than the Service Cheifs.

Every special forces is used in there own way. That is why we have different ones. The SEALS are the best at what they do. I only say that because of success and training. I do not think the Marines are a SF. True they do the most fighting of all the other forces, but they are not specially trained for covert operations.

The Marines do have at least one dedicated Special Ops unit. I have only heard of one, called Detachment Six, that operates out of 1st Force Recon Company. It was used in the 2003 invasion of Iraq. That's the last I heard of it. The Corps was tired of losing so many Recon personnel to Delta Force and the SEAL Teams. The Corps also realized that Special Operations are central to the war on terror, and it wanted to have a piece of that action.

A long time ago I had just completed a course of electronics (Avionics) study at Millington Memphis Naval Air Station and was fortunate enough to have scored high enough to be sent to a course of study run by the Navy at an Air Force Base. This course was the (I was told) last course in DoD that gave complete system instruction (from direct support to depot level repair) in one course and was highly competitive to get in. All the Marines were E-2's and E-3's and all the rest of the students were E-6's, E-7's and there was even a civilian engineer (guess who got to clean the Class room at the end of each day). Well with about a week left in the course out of about eight months the Navy Master Chief who ran the school separated the Marines (~ 3 of us) away from the rest of the class and told us we were more than likely going to be "Volunteered" to go to the Basic Under Water Demolitions (BUDS) course in Coronado. Something about them not getting enough qualified technicians that could also keep up with the training so they were press ganging any Marine who was not attached to any fleet entity yet but who they felt they could force through BUDS one way or the other and keep up with the technical requirements. The chief said that as long as we could make at least a decent effort in BUDS the need for technicians in Naval Special Warfare would at least put any benefit of doubt in our direction. In any case the three of us ended up not going to BUDS. I was later told it was a close thing and that the Navy has always had a liberal policy about poaching Marine Corps assets as long as they could justify it as to the greater good of the DoN. I think one of the reasons that Marines are reticent to put a "SPECIAL" label on any unit is just this tendency (at least at the time (Mid 70's)) of the Navy's to poach such capabilities. Typically when the Marine Corps does put a label on a unit it’s usually for some function that is so intrinsically intertwined with Marine Corps missions that it can be justified as being inseparable.

The Marines do indeed possess Special Operations like capability but for years avoided being an official part of SOCOM and establishing an independent USMC Special Ops entity (like Naval Special Warfare Command, Army SOF or Air Force SOF) for a lot of reasons. However, after 9/11, this changed and discussions with NAVSPECWARCOM ensued resulting in deployment of first USMC SOF unit in rotation with SEALs in Afghanistan. See following link for best update on how USMC is integrating into SOF world: http://www.special-operations-technology.com/archive_article.cfm?DocID=391

Hi, I have no training experience with the Marine Special Ops or Recons but i have the honour of particpating in a beach/swamp assualt with a MEU off the assualt carrier WASP in Hawaii. Alright, the MEU is lavishly equipped and i enjoyed the Navy chow very much but when it comes to the field operations it is entirely different matter. It has to be the fattest bunch of Marines i have seen, pudgy faced...slow moving. Alot of the marines have fallen out during a fire-movement exercise and is chilling out with the medics/corpsman some call it. Physical fitness is very poor, perharps they aren't used to the heat or they ain't taking the excercise seriously? Time was some 8-9years ago. A joint excercise between USMC and SAF 1st Battalion Guards of 7days. That said, with all due respect to the fine tradition of USMC.

Marines in SOF was a money thing. Great for getting some non marine money to pay for stuff. Bad part was loss of control. Bejean, not to doubt your story, but you wern't on the USS Wasp off the coast of Hawaii. She is a East Coast ship. That said I really had fun on the rope course at Camp Hendon many years ago. The SAF soldiers were very professional and the host support was great.

It was the Wasp, i am very sure. Pls give me your email so i can show u our pictures taken on it.

Hey, u did some training in Singapore? Camp Hendon is home to the Singapore Commandos. That rope course u mentioned should be the rapelling course held at the nearby cliff. Hope u enjoyed your stay in singapore, u guys are good host on the Wasp or watever ship that is...haha...too.

I wasn't questioning you interaction with Marines. Hope you didn't think I was. But 95-96 time frame, I was on the Wasp as part of BLT 2/6. And we were in the Med. As a plug it was the float that Clancy used in his book Marines. I have no doubt that you may have been on a wasp class ship, or it could have been the Tarawa LHA-1. Wasp really is just an improved Tarawa class. Also it works out that odd numbered Tarawa class and even numbered Wasp class are Pacific based. Yes I had a great time in Singapore