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Subject: Amphibious Landings?
freestyle    9/7/2008 3:21:29 AM
can the us navy land an entire marine division amphibiously?
 
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hardcharger    The Answer is no   9/9/2008 1:53:55 PM
Current and projected future capabilities require an attainable landing force of 2.5 MEB's (Marine Expeditionary Brigades) In all likely hood a major amphibious operation would take the form of a re-enfroced MEB (2x Deployed MEU's + A balancing force deployed to round out the MEB) or a foothold operation by the two MEU's + a rapid build up from on of the MSP's.
 
Future plans call for the ability to assemble a MEB at sea and assualt with a re-enforced MEB however ther are several technical hurdles yet to be met to acheive this. One of them being the EFV status.
 
Division sized amphibious assualts are pretty much history.
 
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JFKY    Also   9/9/2008 4:56:42 PM
I might add that the Amphibious Lift is spread out over two coasts, so the idea that the USMC could, quickly, land 2.5 MEB's is a bit disingenuous.  It might have the capacity to move two MEB's but one would be in the Atlantic and one in the Pacific...so unless they were going to jointly land in Iran, the US would be hard pressed to land multiple brigades in one theatre....I would think.
 
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SCCOMarine    Not Entirely True   9/10/2008 2:12:22 PM

I might add that the Amphibious Lift is spread out over two coasts, so the idea that the USMC could, quickly, land 2.5 MEB's is a bit disingenuous.  It might have the capacity to move two MEB's but one would be in the Atlantic and one in the Pacific...so unless they were going to jointly land in Iran, the US would be hard pressed to land multiple brigades in one theatre....I would think.


The USMC maintains Bunker Like Depots stationed in host Nations around the world (Norway, Diego Garcia, Rota Spain, etc.) & some continuously at sea courtesy of the civilian Maritime Pre-Position Force (MPF).
 
In time of Crisis the Marine Expeditionary Brigades would be airlifted, sans equipment, to forward staging area provided by a host country close to the conflict & link w/ the Ships & pre-positioned, pre-palletized gear.
 
The US Navy maintains a Fleet of 31 ships(its supposed to be 33) for this purpose. At any given time about 9 are out at sea supporting MEU(SOC) Operations.  The others are always strategically placed to be 'on call'.
 
In a time of Crisis the 'on call Amphibs', the MEB, & the MPF would converge & load the gear at the local FSA according to the Assault Package specified.  Some MPF are capable of assisting in the actual assault minimizing the need for as many Amphibs.
 
The part that is true is that the USMC would not launch 2 MEBs into the same country, it would be unnecessary.  The single MEB's task would be 1) to seize a Beach Head for follow on forces, 2) pacify an area of about a 20mi radius of the BH, & 3) to establish a sphere of influence out to a 400mi radius.
 
The US Army would more than likely be the follow on force.  They have there own Sea Lift capability, independent of the US Navy, & are able to lift up to a Corps' strength on to a secured Beach Head.
 
The Marines 'Forcible Entry' capability is not designed to land 2.5 MEBs in the same country, although its capable of doing so.  It's to be able to Simultaneously strike 2 countries w/ one MEB each, anywhere in the world, at any time. 
 
But it does however, have the ability to strike the same country w/ 2.5 MEBs fr/either coast at the same time if that ever were the mission.
 
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JFKY       9/10/2008 4:09:09 PM
I believe that's what I said, with a lot fewer words, SCCOMarine...it is disingenuous to say that the USMC can land 2 MEB's, TOGETHER...it COULD  be done, but not easily and so it is much more valid to think of a Marine Amphibious landing as a battalion or brigade-sized operation, followed by an Army echelon.
 
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SCCOMarine       9/11/2008 10:03:04 AM

I believe that's what I said, with a lot fewer words, SCCOMarine...it is disingenuous to say that the USMC can land 2 MEB's, TOGETHER...it COULD  be done, but not easily and so it is much more valid to think of a Marine Amphibious landing as a battalion or brigade-sized operation, followed by an Army echelon.
 
If you think that what we said was the same then you didn't read everything I said.
 
"...it is disingenuous to say that the USMC can land 2 MEB's."  Maybe you miss worded it but that statement is wrong.
 
B/c the MEBs are not launch fr/either coast, but are Flown into a host country near the target and then linked w/ pre-staged gear. 
 
So it wouldn't matter if the 2 MEBs were striking the same country, 2 countries next to each other, or 2 countries half a world away; the amount of effort would be the same.
 
Its not that they 'can't', or that it would be 'more difficult', it would take the same amount of effort b/c of pre-staging.  But for most Forcible Entries it would be 'unnecessary', unless the mission called for it.
 
Which is a whole lot different than saying, "...it is disingenuous to say that the USMC can land 2 MEB's." 
 
It may seem like 'splitting hairs', but to someone reading this who has no understanding of the capability it makes a big difference. 
 
Like I said maybe you miss worded it, its no problem, but I'm sure the person reading would want a clear understanding.
 
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hardcharger    Please read what I said   9/11/2008 5:35:19 PM
I never said that 2.5 MEBS would be landed I said
 
"Future plans call for the ability to assemble a MEB at sea and assualt with a re-enforced MEB however ther are several technical hurdles yet to be met to acheive this. One of them being the EFV status."
 
All of the scenarios that I have seen played out for the future MEB, and I have seen a few. go something like this"
 
Phase 1 - Rendevous MEU from east coast and MEU from west coast to control point
 
Phase II - Rendevous the TWO MEUS with the MPF(F) at the control popint
 
Phase III - Deploy RLT to the Control Point
 
To sum up MEU + MEU = 2 BN's (Rein) add RLT + ACE units = MEB (Rein)
 
I NEVER SAID land with 2.5 MEBS I said sealift capabilty exist for 2.5 MEBS
 
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hardcharger    I might also add   9/11/2008 5:49:27 PM
The composition of the MEB would be totally dependant on the situation. Currently SCCOMarine is absolutely correct as far flying to friendly host nation for assembly, beyond 2015, The USN and USMC are developing ships, tactics and other assests to assemble that force at sea. Many of these assets are already taking shap such as High Speed Ferry already operational on the west coast. We recognize that we will not always have in the future a Friendly Host Natiion willing or able to grant an assembly area.
 
SCCOMarine is absolutely correct when he states that the follow on forces would most likely be ARMY HBCT or IBCT and the army does have the assests to deliver brigade sized and division sized units by sea if required.
 
 
 
 
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