wow s-2 wasnt sure you'd stop lobbin' those 155s at me...and watch the cursin-might be burning Gop's ears... a couple of things if your done seeing red........ 1)the phrase about marine reccon is to the marines... that only ment that each branch has their special units that is trained above the regulars...I didnt specify missions... 2)not to be picky, but hey....the us had little to do in burma-a few small units well trained and nothing in china... 3)okinawa(a huge marine base still)was generally a marine fight-as the cas. will tell. We needed the armys assistance to help root out 100K+ japs....though they did do a good deal(not the majority) of the fighting. I believe the phillipeans was all army and they did a good job 4)we did have a couple of ranger units drop on us 2 times-either a co. or a bn each time out at the stumps(29 palms) and much to your red eyes and gritting teeth, they got waxed once and beaten the other....(I dont put this comment lightly though, there was a casuality...a ranger was hit in the leg by a .50cal and died.) and from what I was told by previous people involved, the rangers have(had)never been able to take the airstrip-one of their prime missions. Sorry(and I dont exagerate with my threads...that is cheap Sh** to do) 5)perhaps out of 100+ div (ww2)you might have 10 or so that you can compete with the average mar div. As far as a heavy AD, well, with the supporting bns the Mar div has, I would place 1st mar div any day....They might have more tanks, but that means little.... oh yeah, with out any-any-any organic airsupport other than appaches, the heavy ad is toast. remember its army vs marine, not army and airforce.... perhaps in ww1 or the 1800s it would have been more even, but not in modern warfare. 6)korea is another story-Inchon, Chosin..etc...the army did good. A good job holding the pusan per. until the marines landed at inchon.... I'm not blasting the army per se...the marines are smaller and can be trained better-it is far easier to train a smaller unit/numbers. The marines budget has always been much, much smaller, but we have always made due with army hand-me-down with a few exceptions(like the harrier, lav-25, amtrack, and soon to be osprey. Remember what I had wrote earlier....I was on my way to ranger school(almost)-if I did not think it was good, I would not have wasted my time. when the few slots opened up, they were covetted. take an aspirin, use a cold compress and relax........we cant all be marines(just kidding!)

AR-yeah on paper. In the field, its a different story...besides, you forgot a major factor...no organic airsupport other than appaches. An army div would be toast before any contact was made

s-2...dont forget the aspirin and cold compress...it might speed things up, unless you have read my latest threads :)

AR-well, one advantage you have over me, in my old age, I cant remember all the facts. and other than bustin' your humps over this, I dont feel like looking up all the stats. To old for that...arguing-no, researching-yeah...

s-2 I am fine......envy never hurt anyone(just kiddin) The army is finally getting it right(past 10 yrs) in the way they train....and with the smaller size, their quality will def. go up and up...now a days, most of the army units are of much higher quality than in the past..... also, being smaller, they can focus on more quality recruits rather than trying to fill the ranks of 15-20-25 div while the USMC had to fill 3...(like in the 80s and early 90s) I strongly feel that the 1st GW was the armys rebirth and their charge into the new century....

Oh, I'm much better now. 5th Marine RCT fought in the Pusan perimeter before being pulled to head up to Inchon. Fact is, U.S.A.F. TAC assets are our "air-wing". Haven't had a fight of consequence where they weren't around. Still, mark your position when A-10s are in the AO. Yours is better- ours is plenty good enough. Tradeoffs are always part of the package. You'd have better equipment for your guys if you didn't have your own airwings. My guess is, that being the case, you'll keep your airwings-I would, anyway. It might be worth your time to look at the China/Burma theatre. Lots of G.Is there. Jungles to rival any in this world, and very, very hard and largely unrecognized combat. Clearly, we shared the AO with the Brits and the Kuomintang Army. Still, we had a lot of troops. I've no reason not to believe you about Ranger FTXs at Twentynine Palms, or elsewhere. If you say it was...it therefore must have been. Don't forget that while the "devildogs" were at Belleau Wood, the boys from the 3rd I.D. were just down the road at Chateau Thierry doing the exact same thing to the Germans. That's why they're the "Marne Division". Can't agree about Okinawa, Marine base there or not. Hell, the U.S.A.F. have a base there too. Does that mean they won the fight. U.S. Army Gen. Simon Bolivar Buckner was the commanding officer of all ground troops, including Marines. He was killed there. Marines moved north. They didn't go south to the Shuri Line until the north was secured. We carried the ball there until you guys got turned around, and came back. We needed you, too. Our guys got whacked. But it'd be a BIG mistake of yours to think that we hadn't WHACKED back at least as hard. Truth is, you guys had a walk in the park until you got down south as well. That's were all the real action was. I KNOW that I can find ten topnotch U.S. Army Divisions, especially when including the ETO. Much love, dude. My batteries have "ceased loading". Still, there is an odd round or two in the chambers that may enroute to your positions. Heads down, Army artillery still firing!(;-) GarryOwen.

>"4)we did have a couple of ranger units drop on us 2 times-either a co. or a bn each time out at the stumps(29 palms) and much to your red eyes and gritting teeth, they got waxed once and beaten the other....(I dont put this comment lightly though, there was a casuality...a ranger was hit in the leg by a .50cal and died.) and from what I was told by previous people involved, the rangers have(had)never been able to take the airstrip-one of their prime missions. Sorry(and I dont exagerate with my threads...that is cheap Sh** to do)"< How are these excersised planned? Do you use the miles gear during these excersises, or some kind of simunition type of thing? Are you told to expect some activity in a few days or in a month or so? If the have never been able to take the airfield, then all of 29 palms must have been alerted

yeah, army dawg, thats why you have the artie by the hundreds...you dont have a line of marines advancing..... speaking of supporting air, I'll tell ya, having a couple of a-10s flying 50ft overhead with the Gau a barkin'-now that was a sight....BBBRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPP..... the marines had khe sahn and the 101st had bastogne(though the 106th and the 28th kinda mutted part of the heroic stand).. I can kinda say, the marines are the 155s -a battery or two, but the army is a battalion or two of 105s....sometimes its better to have a few 155s, but usually havin' a hell of a lot more 105s crashin on down is a whole lot better.... I think the (seriousness)-besides the organic airsupport,(mute when the army will always have the airforce on their six, and more often then not, they also support the MC as does the navy) the biggest advantage was the prepositioned. The army got there quicker(ab/rangers)but the mc got their quicker with a bigger punch...until the heavy ad came ashore..... so all in all, Semper Fi

well thats the deal gop....during the any exercise-as you will find out when you join, both sides know it will happen, just not when and how(thus the purpose of the exercise)-for your info, the deal at the stumps.....its in the middle of the desert and nestled under a mountain range(not to huge, but huge enough when you have 100lbs on your back and when your verticle, the mtn is 6 inches from your face)......the target area was the airstrip-not a huge paved strip-but it is about 5 miles or so-i cant remember now, from the base....not much out there, just a few building and not used much any more, but great for training-esp for the rangers.... as s-2 and another army dawg can tell you, while I might be bragging (not exagerating-that is a waste of time and pointless), there have been hundreds of joint-service training/mock wargames, and the army sas bested the marines a few times and will in the future as well -though not to many and not to often :)

Old?...I bet I have many years on you...I don't have to look it up since I lived it!! Getting there first? need I reemind you the first unit in theater for OIF was 1 Bde, 3 ID in AUG 2002...which drew prepo stocks. 2 Bde 3 ID drew stocks from afloat prepositioning ships from Diego Garcia in fall 2002...3 Bde 3 ID brought from home station. Talk about your A-8s all you want....I could care less about tac air...I'll take our corps artillery any day...they shoot and hit in any weather, day or night...and provided GS artillery support to the USMC. As has been said, Okinawa brought 5 divisions into the battle...3 Army and 2 Marine commanded by Army LTG. As I said, understand the other guys history before you try to dog him out.