What I was thinking about is using cats like the HSV for ROR. They can unload a complete battalion plus vehicles in under an hour. Would take LCACs a lot longer if you look at the link I posted. Even an ROR like a WWII LST would work well, although the HSV could get in, unload and get out a lot faster. Cats are by nature very shallow draft in the bow, and could be put ashore, unloaded, and withdrawn.

HSV, like ROR, would be OK for following on logistics but taking them right up to the beach during the initial assault does not fit with the planned doctrine. The future is to launch assaults from beyond the horizon, which is part of the reason for the EFV and V-22. These systems can operate over a longer distance and at a greater speed than the current systems. The over horizon doctrine means keeping your major amphibious units out of harms way. This is part of the reason for retiring the LSTs. You do not want to risk a major surface unit by running up on a hostile or relatively unsecured beach or even bringing it close to shore. I am not sure you would want to put an HSV at such risk either. It seems to me that the HSV and modular LHX offer the chance to provide a means for a fast raiding force and a littoral patrol. It seems to me, and I am no naval architect, that an LHX with the catamaran hull would provide the opportunity to fit a small removable well deck. This would be an ideal force for areas like the Philippines Islands and Indonesia. We would need to see that the ships could provide some fire support and find a way to squeeze more helicopters onto them.

Ambush sums up current offcial doctrine fairly well. There is some discontent over the the cost & other issues of the EFV & hovercraft, and Osprey. I doubt all three will vanish soon, but at least one could be cut. Still that does not negate the fundamental doctrine as it existed long before using heliocopters, LVTs, Mike boats and DUKWS. The scale is different but the concepts remain the same. My best guess is the LHX points to the future for moving assualt forces close to the beach particularly if the EFV does not work out.

You are totally correct when it comes to doctrine. Doctrine should be changed slowly and carefully based on experience and training. But doctrine must adapt to new technology. LCACs carry small loads and are easy targets. Not sure they can survive a real assault if needed. LCU's are worse as they are a lot slower. This is why I lean towards thinking out of the box on this. Keep some welldeck ships, but I'd say let's try mixing in some cats. Send a cat in at full speed and it can deliver 10 Abrahms tanks in one shot.

Can you give me a refrence to the sort of "cat" you are refering to? I'm falling behind on the new gadgets,

some starters Carl- The WestPac Express is the Marines version. Of great value is that it travels at least 2x the speed of any gator navy ship around. "The ship is capable of transporting 970 Marines in airline style reclining seats on its upper deck. Along with the passengers, the Westpac Express can carry 305 ton of equipment." I gather there is a bigger version in the works. And this would not be used against an entrenched enemy, but there are not too many people that can stay entrenched after we soften the beaches. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/hsv.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSV-2_Swift http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2005/07/us-marines-extend-westpac-express-tsv-ship-charter/index.php http://www.incat.com.au/news/interest.cgi?news_task=DETAIL&articleID=63826§ionID=63031

This discussion also makes one wonder about the future composition of vessels to support an MEU. Since the first Amphib's a lot of advancement has occurred. The USN is now retiring the first LHA's, using LHD's, and LPD's, and in the upcoming years the even larger LHA/R will be commissioned. As such there may be a need for fewer Amphibious Assault type vessels, and with a shrinking military there could be savings in terms of personnel required to support such as task force. Comments anyone?

You're points are right on. The whole amphib system can/should be addressed. LCU's are badly outdated and inefficient, even LCACs are being cut back. Fortunately the USMC are smart and willing to adapt. I can see a day when the LHA uses V-22s to envelop a landing area after CVNs and Tomahawks have crushed the enemies capacity to fight back. This after either SEALs or force Recon have ID'd the targets and cleared the beach. After the V-22 deployed troops defend the beachhead from 10-20nm inland, the ROR/cats roll in with battalions of troops and their vehicles. The speed of these vessels also allow you to take advantage of good intel and pick a weak spot and move people in before the defenders can. The added sp[eed and range of the V-22 support this type of action.

That last post describes how we were training without the V-22 twenty years ago. The only difference is ordinary rifle companys cleared the beach in conjuction with the SEALs. Force Recon did recon & was not in the beach clearing business anytime in my career. One problem we used to run into when trying to defend a beachhead "10-20nm inland" (actually it was often further) was that the vertically inserted force was painfully dependant of timely air support. Getting the tanks & artillery ashore to reinforce them was often the critical factor as the air started looking shakey. To read the current airpower advocates the unreliability problems of the past are no longer a problem. (Anyone here want to bet their life on it?)

In Afghanistan we used B-52s to loiter over a battleground for hours on end and provide precision airstrikes using JDAMs. As long as we own the air there should be no problem, give them a GPS coordinate to hit and it's a matter of the gravity and distance to get the hit. My reason for the inland V-22 drop was to help protect the beachhead, since it would be used to put troops/equipment ashore by ROR, rather then LCU/LCAC. ROR puts more troops at risk so you want to eliminate as much of the risk as possible. A single silkworm hit on an HSV could cause major casualties.