Basically agree, but you forgot the political side. Congressional mandate of three divisions. The fear is that any revision of this will result in a Corps reduction. Reduction of flag positions. While not as bad as the other services, getting rid of the Div will eliminate HQ's, hence officer slots. Thats not a easy pill to swallow.

Yea the officers will scream but open up some of the Joint billets to them. Who thought that a Marine would be CinCEur? Not as many officer billets will be axed as it looks. Example, The 10th Marine Regt Cdr is presently dual hatted as the Div FSO. It just removes one hat and fills those T/O billets that are not normally filled full time. Those Regt officers can fill the MEF alpha slots. Maybe we will have enough officers by MOS to go around. I have never seen a logistics officer (by MOS) at the Bn level unless we were gearing up for float. Same with intel guys and very few adj. Those billets were filled by the infantry Capts/senior 1stLts waiting for a company or waiting for their orders to leave. Of the 2 gen officers at div, the COS becomes a MEB Cdr. (As is SOP in the MEF forward concept anyway). The 2 star rank can be a HQMC post, advance degree program or one long golf outing. I do screw them don't I. As far as the congress mandated 3 divs. We have been down to about 2.5 since the late 80s (peace dividend) and no one has complained. Thats how 3d MarDiv has 1.5 inf regts and 1 arty bn now instead of the 3 and 4 when I first went there in 85. We went from a constant(mid 50s to late 80s) 195,000 to 170,000 Marines. So if the 3 Divs are a stopping point then we need to go back to congress and make them enforce the NSA. I think we can get more trigger pullers this way. BTW the 2 Capt/liaison idea came from Col J.P. Glasgow (ret), a former commander of mine, an editor of the Gazette and all around great arty guy

Sam....your radical!! Your idea is very much along the lines argued by army Col. McGregor in his book "Breaking the Phalanx." I've also read similiar proposals on globalsecurity.org (site search for 'marine brigade reorganization'). By chance, the other weekend I caught the tail end of a Marine Corps Association conference on C-Span that featured a joint appearance by the CG's of the I MEF, 1 MarDiv and 2 MEB. Unfortunately no one asked about the redundancy of the MarDiv HQ. I think your proposal is what is actually going to happen. The only thing you admitted is my idea about re-flagging the BN and changing the RGT to BDE; I know how much you liked my idea! HEY, what's this crap about Henoko. Sure it may have only one good cat house, but don't under estimate Japanese efficiency! Didn't you write once that you were once with Det 1 at Henoko?? I was at Henoko 1981-82.

Sam: Just a few questions: 1. By “standing up” the 2nd, 6th and 8th MEBs and casing the 2nd MarDiv colors, aren’t you just shifting various HQ personnel from the RGT and DIV to the MEBs and MEF? Isn’t this, essentially, a zero sum exercise in terms of manpower? 2. Please indulge my REMF mind. How does “standing up” the above mentioned MEBs change the status quo? Please explain the current status of the various MEBs and MEUs when they are not deployed. Are they temporarily deactivated or do these HQ units have permanent staff? For example, what happens with the HQ staff now that the 2nd MEB is home. 3. Will the BNs be permanently assigned to the MEBs or MEF? 4. Is permanently assigning the BNs to the MEB effective given that the GW2 order of battle was : 1 Marine Expeditionary Force 3/25, 2/23, 4th AAB, 15, 24 & 26 MEUs 1st MarDiv 2/11 1st Marines: 3/1, 1/4, 1 LAR, 3 LAR, 7th Marines: 1/7, 3/7, 3/4, 3/11, 1 TNK 5th Marines: 1/5, 2/5, 3/5 2nd MEB: 1/2, 2/8, 3/2, 1/10, 2nd AAB, 2 REC, 2 LAR, 2 TNK, 8 TNK 5. Under your reorganization plan, who would command the regiments and what would happen to the rest of the MEB headquarters? Thanks.

I havn't read Col McGregors' book but have talked to him a few times. My ideas are not radical if you look at the Marine Corps prior to WW2 and the operations since the end of Vietnam. Except for GW 1 and GW 2 we have fought as BLTs or RLTs. It could be argued that during both gulf wars we fought as RLTs (called Task Force). Remember TF Riper, TF Tarawa,4th MEB. We did the same thing in Korea. The biggest thread I hear in the Marines today is getting rid of at least 1 MEF HQ but keeping the Divs as is. On a historical note, when we had 6 divs the most MEF HQ that were stood up at any time was 2. I'll answer your other questions later. My only complaint that I had with your idea was that you went to far. If you had stayed at the regt level instead of the Bn level we would be on the same track.

Sam: A historical footnote: Last night I was browsing through my copy of the Marine Corps Association's "USMC, A Complete History" (the book that's thick enough to give your children a concussion if struck by it) and read something very interesting. Due to post war drawdowns, the Corps in Sept. 1947 instituted what they called "J-series table of organization" in which BLT were re-designated using the former regimental system. Thus 2/1 became the 1st Marines. This system lasted until Oct 1948, when the the Corps manpower increased and reverted to the old regimental system. I am trying to find more info about this subject. You wrote: "My only complaint that I had with your idea was that you went to far. If you had stayed at the regt level instead of the Bn level we would be on the same track." What would you have done? I don't quite follow your point. When did you meet Col. McGregor?

I think it was the other way around. I believe Col McGregors ideas were influenced by the Marine organization of MEUs, MEBs, etc. While it makes sense to stand down the Army divisions and use them as admin/training HQs to gain esprit, it doesn't make sense for the Corps. Standing down the Corps Div Hqs is purely a means of getting rid of a unnecessary command level. Btw, I assume you guys are familiar with Carlton Meyers web site? What do you think? While he is not as far gone as Col Hackworth (ie anything with his name mentioned in it is ignored by the Pentagon), I wonder if he isn't too far behind. Also... Oregon_X_Marine, you asked for this. Hollywood Marine, 1968-74. Two tours in Indian country. Mustang, one tour as enlisted, one as a "gentlemen" (not if you asked my fellow officers, but thats another story). Entire time as a 03xx, some Force Recon time. Died by paper bullets as an O-3.

If an old Army guy can sneak in a question.... Didn't the OCT 48 changes also reduce the rifle company in the battalion by one which was to be filled by a USMCR company? And didn't this hurt the 5 Marine Brigade/1st Marine Division in 1950? Just wondering...

Thanks for the bio; very interesting. Please explain the meaning of your name. Are you a combination of Shaka Zula and Hannibal? Is the 8th Marines the "Hollywood Marines" you speak of? How did the regiment get its nickname? Doesn't Carlton Meyers run the G2 web site?? I've visited the web site and believe a little bit of populism is good, too much of it is very bad. What does Meyers think our grand strategy regarding the War on Terror should be?? Blame the Jews and become Buchananite neo-isolationist??

1. Am I just shifting people from the regt and div HQ to the MEB? Is It a zero sum game? That is where the majority of the personnel will come from. Some from the MEF, some will come from the pentagon and other outside billets. They are already tasked for the job, Im just wanting to pull them from being Col "get the doughnuts for the meeting". Thats how the MC (and probibly other services) justify field and general grade billets at HQMC. "If we stand up 6th MEB, he will be the MEB-4 so until then he will be the Krispy Kreem procurement officer. The MEF is already staffed. 2 How does “standing up” the above mentioned MEBs change the status quo? Please explain the current status of the various MEBs and MEUs when they are not deployed. At present, the MEBs (except for 2d and 4th) are deactivated. The MEUs (22,24,26) have perm staff, only the assigned combat/support units change. When 2d MEB returns, colors will be cased and personnel will go back to their "regular" job 3. Will the BNs be permanently assigned to the MEBs or MEF? MEBs, however they will still get assigned to the MEF for MEU deployments. MEUs are part of the MEF but draw their units from the Div. That will not change. 4. Is permanently assigning the BNs to the MEB effective given that the GW2 order of battle was : If you mean that it keeps the "regt" together then yes. I do away with the UDP program, that means that, except for MEU ops, the units will be together. Part of my deployment/training plan would make the MEB that is tasked with LF6F will be the "ready" MEB. What this does is take advantage of the near T/O personnel, and allows the MEU to depoly, with their parent MEB as the follow on. Everyone has worked together, understand how the Cdr intends to fight and have been through at least one MEB sized CAX together. A full CAX not the 3 week Bn variety that we are use to now 5. Under your reorganization plan, who would command the regiments and what would happen to the rest of the MEB headquarters? No one, Regts are morphed into MEB. Hope this helps