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Subject: M16a3 or M16a4???
SteelGear    3/14/2006 12:11:39 AM
The USMC chose the M16a4 over the US Army's Choice of the M4a1 as the primary battle rifle for the following reasons: 1. The M4 is bit short to use with a bayonet 2. Heat problems in desert conditions (during prolonged use) 3. M4 offers less precise aiming due to the four inches less sighting radius when compared with an 16A2/A3/A4. One wonders why go with an M16a4 when you can have an M16a3. the M16a3 has the ablity to full auto unlike the M16a4 which has the triple burst firing option of the M16a2. Going full auto is something that would very useful in a CQB style engagement which happens very often in MOUT situations. Is the reason why the USMC selected the M16a4 instead of the M16a3 because they have big attachment to burst fire rather than full auto or is there something else?
 
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panzerc       9/17/2008 3:02:18 PM
actually the m4 is not the army's standard battle rifle, the m16 is still king in this matter.i know that most army  line units got issued m16a4 as well as the m4. so its not just a marine weapon. i actually used the m16a4 for 18 months before i was issued my m4, and i still draw my m16 some days. and my unit is still keeping all of their m16s. i guess its all dependant on where you get deployed. iraq is mostly urban so you'll need a shorter rifle where as afghanistan is open mountainous terrain where you might actually need the m16. i consistantly shot 39 and 40 while qualifying with my m16 and 36-38 with my m4 so there is just a slight difference in accuracy. while i must admit i never missed the 300m target with either rifle. but i guess it just depends on what is issued to you at mob, which now where ever you go is most likley the m4.
 
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theBird       9/28/2008 2:03:11 AM
Another advantage the longer barrel can have is a higher muzzle velocity, which can result in a better chance of the 5.56 bullet fragmenting once it hits, causing even more damage.
 
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HB117       10/31/2008 5:12:54 PM
You have it turned around. The M16A4 is the only M16 that goes semi-auto and fully automatic. The M16A3 has semi-auto and 3 round burst such as the M16A2.
 
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panzerc       11/3/2008 6:06:51 PM

im gonna try to make a correction to this although i might be wrong. But the m16a4 I used was burst and not full auto. however a good reason for this could be that we used the lower recievers for an m16a2 and used the upper recievers for the m16a4 which could very well be the reason. but the wear and tear on the lower recievers was non existant meaning they were brand new. and the it only takes the changing of one small piece in the lower reciever to make a weapon into burst or auto.

 
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Tsune       1/29/2009 7:44:24 PM
i don't know man but i like both weapons my cousin who was in the airborne told me that both the A4 and M4A1 were both good weapons and i agree with that
 
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benellim4       3/4/2009 12:29:01 PM
You have it turned around. The M16A4 is the only M16 that goes semi-auto and fully automatic. The M16A3 has semi-auto and 3 round burst such as the M16A2.
 
You're the one who is turned around. The M16A3 has the fixed carry handle of the M16A2 and the firecontrol group of the M16A1, which is safe-semi-full.
 
So you're also wrong that the M16A4 is the only one that goes full-auto. The M16 and the M16A1 both had safe-semi-full firecontrol groups.
 
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Jaybnz       9/28/2010 4:54:25 PM
The M4A1 is indeed the Army's standard battle rifle for whoever said it wasn't. 
Non-infantry units get issued M16's.  And they're not expected to use them.  Infantry gets the M4A1 w/ M68 Sight.  No one fires "from the hip"  when entering a room your weapon is at the extreme high ready, meaning it would take you .25 seconds to move that M68 scope into your eyesight.  Not to mention your wearing IBE's and if you're the pointman you're crouched when entering a room with a Kevlar on.  You may take a hit, but it'll only throw you on your ass, unless they hit your leg then you'll have a wound.  The M68 is a quick reflex scope, meaning you don't have to align anything.  You pull it up and you see that red dot and the bullet goes where it is, no matter where your eye is in relation to that sight, as long as you see the red dot it's fine.  Fully automatic is quite inappropriate for this situation as there should be 3 people behind you as well, and 3/4 will have a good shot on the enemy who appears, the 2nd guy, has an arm on the point man to pull him away if he does get shot so he has only 1 hand on the weapon he's using.  So the 2nd guy would be suppressive fire.  The M4A1's effective range with iron sights is 500m, with an optic it can be increased to roughly 800m.  And still able to hit dirt at about 1300m if I recall correctly from the IET handbook.  However it may also be 3600m.  Yes the M16A4 is more accurate, but good luck noticing it.  The M4A1 is shorter, lighter, and SLIGHTY more inaccurate than the M16A4 making it ideal for room breaching and CQB
 
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Patton       12/20/2010 1:36:57 PM

The USMC chose the M16a4 over the US Army's Choice of the M4a1 as the primary battle rifle for the following reasons:
1. The M4 is bit short to use with a bayonet
2. Heat problems in desert conditions (during prolonged use)
3. M4 offers less precise aiming due to the four inches less sighting radius when compared with an 16A2/A3/A4.

One wonders why go with an M16a4 when you can have an M16a3. the M16a3 has the ablity to full auto unlike the M16a4 which has the triple burst firing option of the M16a2. Going full auto is something that would very useful in a CQB style engagement which happens very often in MOUT situations.

Is the reason why the USMC selected the M16a4 instead of the M16a3 because they have big attachment to burst fire rather than full auto or is there something else?
First of all, the M-16 is a piece of shit.  It has problems with heat transfer to the bolt and corrosion which makes it prone to stop.  It is also a very finely tuned piece of shit, meaning that it requires ALOT of preventive maintenance.  The A4 is probably much better than the A1, which had problems with the magazine.  Only 18 rounds could be loaded into a 20 round mag if you didnt want to experience a stoppage. (There were also problems with the powder in the ball rounds issued at the time.)  One thing I will say about the -16 is that the 5.56mm round, which is essentially a .22 on steriods, has deadly effects.  The round creates a cavity on impact doing substantial internal damage and the round breaks up into three pieces that float.  It was originally designed by Eugene Stoner of ARMalite and Colt later purchased the patent.  The -16 was jokingly referred to as "the Matell toy" because it resembled a toy rifle produced by the Matell Company in the 1960's.  As for the M-4 Carbine... I talked to an E-6 I know in the ANG a few years ago. I was told that it suffered over 2000 stoppages in '05-'06 along with over 1000 catastrophic failures.  The Army really needs to replace those weapons with something more reliable. 
As for CQB, you want an HK  MP-5, Ingram Mac-10, or a combat shotgun with a reliable sidearm as a back -up weapon.  Oh... and by the way, the M-4A1  IS NOT  standard Army issue.  That weapon is issued strictly to Army SOF's.  You obviously dont know your rifles...

 
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Privateer       12/21/2010 5:35:09 AM
"The M4 Carbine replaces the M16 series Rifles in all Brigade Combat Teams, Division Headquarters, and other selected units."
 
So much for the M4 series not being standard issue...
 
To debunk the myth about the M4's horrible unreliability vs. the XM8, HK416 and SCAR in tha botched "dust chamber test" read this:
 
 
 
The main problem with the direct gas impingement system of the M16/M4 is that it's a "hotter" system. Gas piston systems like the one used on the HK416 are "cooler" which means that they don't burn off the lubrication as fast as a direct gas impingement system. This means that the rifle has to be run quite "wet". A nice side effect for the trooper in the field is that a gas piston system also produces less internal fouling which in turn means less cleaning. You still have to properly clean them, though, just like any other firearm.
 
The main source of problems for the M16/M4 is the magazine. A damaged magazine with bent feed-lips is the main reason for weapon stoppages ("failure-to-feed"). Solution: use new or better mags than the standard USGI design and make sure that the mags are checked and the crappy ones are removed from service and destroyed. In order to keep sand and dust out of your weapon, put a muzzle plug onto the flash hider, insert a magazine and keep the dust cover closed. 
 
Last but not least, the problem with the shorter-barreled M4 isn't accuracy or range, it's reduced muzzle velocity.
 
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Patton       12/22/2010 10:04:15 AM
Please make a distinction between the M-4 Carbine and the M-4A1...
 
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