You do realize you are adding fuel to fire here? So why continue? Horsesoldier in particular: Its completely okay to trash-talk Herc, but I feel you have crossed some other boundaries regarding Indian Army. I am no expert on Indian Army, but from what I can piece together from open-source documents and some personal experience Indian Army professional officers have nothing but respect for US Army. To your outrage, popular culture, of course, dictates that US Marines are the REAL yardstick to measure up against ;) But on a more intrinsic level most Indian armymen dont dwell too much about outsiders, Americans or otherwise, to have as strong opinion as Herc seems to convey - Indian media is a whole different animal though. From what I gather Indo-US military interaction usually begins at very high ranks, so that implies the following: (a) All interactions are politically charged, (b) Very few outcomes - positive or negative - ever percolate down. Lets face it, very few Divisional commanders are immune to political winds prevailing in the Congress or the Prime Minister's Office; even fewer men that far into their careers are likely to be converted by a chap they met for a few months at Ft. Levenworth or IWC. Only Special Forces are exempt from this observation - and that too only since a few years now. Israelis and Indians in Army are share only two points: (a) Hated in significant parts of the Muslim World, (b) Great deal of trust in certain electronics geared towards infantry. Indians have been learning much from Israelis with regard to Special Forces Direct Action missions. Previously Indian "Special Forces" were all modeled on the old Parachute Regiment and LRDG (both of which had Indian units before), so the newly instituted, politically-sensitive counter-terrorism tasks are now supposed to be handles "Israeli-style". But mostly Indian Army and Israeli Army have nothing in else common: Every man in Israel serves in the military, while in most Indian villages a man in uniform is an elite and honoured person. Israelis pride themselves on their shabby appearence, Indians excuse shabbiness only for SUCCESSFUL ambushes (its something of an inside joke). Israel is unified, India highly federated. Dont get me wrong, we all appreciate the pluck and determination of the Israelis... but they are simply too different and distant for us to feel one way or another.

Preface. This falls into the "they say, I've heard, and been told" category, so read critically. India supposedly has some good mountain infantry units. True alpine units, not just light infantry units using the name. Changing the subject. Closer relations with India might be a good thing for the U.S. India has good relations with Israel, so that's a commonality. Also, the chance for some future basing in India might not be such a bad thing. More central Asian presence without using another Muslim country. I know it's unlikely India would grant the U.S. any basing any time soon, but never say never. Things change, sometimes drastically.

Considering most of the wars are in hot areas(weather wise) extended infantry warfare without aircondition is a real requirement--you may think I am joking but if u can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Real report from Iraq: US soldier sees Wal-Mart in mirage in Iraq (125F temp) almost steps into one for a cool drink (yesterdays Yahoo news). Such reports may seem anecdotal and whimsical, but if you are speaking infantry power alone, remember Alexander conquered most of the world (except India) by having a highly mobile army--so whats most of the European or Russian or American infantry gonna do as they march forward--carry ice packs or portable-nano refrigerators--There was an exercise -Indian US army a few years back in India--I saw the photographs, the American infantry was doing their best to keep a happy face, I could see behind the smile-the eyes said -get me the f$$k outta here. They were somewhere in central India--thats too hot and humid-- I don't blame them. Besides Tropical disease ain't fun. Nah we need our Humvees- we too spoilt now.

Olive - I meant no offense, I certainly didn't mean this to turn into yet another "my army will beat up your army thread". Herc, for all his claims of engineering and computer science seems a bit detached from things like.. well reality.. but he does have a knack for winding me into his posts... Herc - Ok.. this is my last attemp. "Considering most of the wars are in hot areas(weather wise) extended infantry warfare without aircondition is a real requirement" First, how do you come to the conclusion that most wars are fought in "hot" areas? Just curious, not that it has any real bearing on anything... but some of the last few really big wars have been fought where it gets cold.. real cold. Second: "extended infantry warfare without aircondition is a real requirement" No, no its not. "the American infantry was doing their best to keep a happy face, I could see behind the smile-the eyes said -get me the f$$k outta here" From Alexander to present, that's the universal thought of practically every infantryman anywhere (at least if they are being honest with you it is). You apparently are so clueless as to have no idea how insulting this post is. Let me know the next time you spend a month or so outdoors in extreme weather conditions with nothing but what you carry on your back. No tents, no air conditioner, no showers, not too many changes of clothes and nothing but the occasional MRE to eat and warm water that tastes more like bleach.. then let me know if you don't drool just a tad over anything that has a roof and electricity. Lets clear some final things up - US light infantry walks. Air conditioning only exists for the air force and those people FAR to the rear. Please spend one day in uniform before talking about anyone being spoiled. Last, let me point something out to you, its not just 125 degrees in the shade, the body armor and helmets most infantry wear serve to raise the core body temperature by upwards of 10 degrees. Thats not even close to saying the same thing as it's 10 degrees hotter with that stuff on.

Having had to spend extended periods in the Arizona and California deserts wearing a kevlar and flak jacket (thankfully no combat load) in temperatures in the 125 range I can tell you it sucks. I dont care how acclimatised or tough you are that type of environment will mess you up.

I have met WW2 vets ex-Japan--now those were people who would rock me to the core after a few drinks with me--their stories were gruesome-the guy had killed a bunch of Japs hand to hand. The guy was 70 and still made of steel-one look and u would run for cover. Todays grunt--ya I lived close to Ft Bliss El Paso--why they were even picky about the brand of sunglasses, and I can out drink them. Personally I could never even go camping need at least a Motel 6 nearby for the good zzzzzs.

ArtyEngineer You've spoken before about working in Yuma. While I've worked outdoors in much of Arizona and California. It is my opinion that Yuma has one of the most miserable summer climates I've ever encountered. I have stepped out of an air-conditioned vehicle in Yuma and almost immediately found myself soaking wet due to humidity. While I work outdoors all day in central AZ heat, I don't envy you.

FOlks, dont be taken in By HERC's overinflated opinion of the INdian Army and its Infantry Battalions. Except for the Paracommandos and their SF units, most units have common training, doctrine, and equipment. Shortage of state of art equipment, guns, com sets, etc. are common. Their fighting spirit and the constant "training" fighting an insurgency from the north and east is keeping them on their toes. Any army trying to take on INDIAN ARMY (pak and pla come to mind) will find them hard to stomach.

"""They are probably the finest light infantry in the world (I am of course, talking about the Queen's Ghurka Rifles when I say this)."" Yea!!! of course you are!!! May be the QUeen's Gurka Rifles comes from some special region in NEPAL!! No better traninig a Gurkha can get in the Indian Army and that is how they earned there reputation. Queen's Gorkha, right!!! LOL