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Subject: Most feared modern army
smudge    4/18/2004 10:46:27 AM
What army would be the most feared not in terms of size and equipment but in terms of tactics,history, and over all profesionalism? the mongol army israel defence force
 
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AlbanyRifles    RE:American Infantry Thru History-AlbanyRifles    10/4/2004 10:43:47 AM
Okay, your opinion is from 2 sources....my opinion is based on an undergraduate degree in history on the Second World War, research and writing in the US Army Infantry Officers Adavnced Course and the Command and General Staff Officers Course, and reading, by a conservative estimate, over 500 books on the subject...of which about 150 are in my personal collection. I recommend reading the following and then lets continue this discussion "When the Odds Were Even" Keith Bonn " A Time For Trumpets" Charles MCDonald "There's a War to be Won" Geoffrey Perrett "THE APPROACH TO THE PHILIPPINES" Robert Ross Smith "BREAKOUT AND PURSUIT" Martin Blumenson "THE LORRAINE CAMPAIGN" " THE ARDENNES"BATTLE OF THE BULGE" Hugh M. Cole
 
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AlbanyRifles    Mister Clock   10/4/2004 10:45:05 AM
Originally the 100th Infantry Battalion and later the 442d Infantry Regimental Combat Team
 
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MOAB-068    RE:Most feared modern army   10/4/2004 10:45:49 PM
I know that most of you have already discussed this topic to the nth degree. However, I just want to make one comment. There is no question that the U.S. armed forces are the most feared modern army, and overall the best fighting force in the world (at this point in time) bar none. And, they are even more feared now that they are a "battle-hardened/battle-tested" force. How many other armed forces can say that? Only a handfull (i.e. Britain, Israel). You can train for war, but unless you experience war, it just isn't the same. Iraq has helped create a truly integrated, experienced air, land, and sea force that is levels above any other armed force.
 
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timon_phocas    RE:American Infantry Thru History-AlbanyRifles    10/5/2004 7:02:31 PM
Albany Rifles, ...I recommend reading the following and then lets continue this discussion... Your research on the subject is most impressive. Mine is less inpressive, but it is not negligible. I've read 30 or so history books a year for the last 41 years, and, like you, I have several hundred history books in my personal library. I did not mean to state that I had read only 2 books on the subject. For I have read many military histories. I used those two books as the most cogent sources for the idea I was trying to communicate. So, with your permission, "let's continue this discussion."
 
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davoj    RE:The world's most COWARDLY infantry: The US Army   10/6/2004 6:19:50 PM
Hi, I'm not a citizen of the USA, however. I think you'll find in Korea esp after China invervened the USA and the UN would have been outnumbered. Probably out numbered in terms of opposing forces in Vietnam as well. I'd not condemn the US because they use overwhelming force, in order to win. The use of inapproriate force against civilians or around civilian areas is what most people are concerned about. As the US has become a professional force the quality of troops has certainly improved and I can tell you alot that disparaged them before do not do so now. Davoj
 
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AlbanyRifles    RE:American Infantry Thru History-Timon Focas    10/7/2004 10:12:29 AM
Deal. My point of view on this, and I admit I come at with the view of having been a professional Infantry officer as well as historian, is that the US Army infantryman of WW II has gotten a bum rap for being a) overly dependent on firepower, b) not as good as a Marine and c) no match for European/Japanese/insert any nationality here And I also apologize if it came across that I was being a bit of a braggart about the reading (you should see my Civil War collection) The US Army Infantry School, headed by COL George Marshall, realized in the 1930s, that warfare needed to be more mobile. They realized that the 4 regiment Square divisions of WW I were too big and balky. They devised units based on 3.....3 squads per platoon, 3 platoons per company, 3 companies per battalion, 3 battalions per regiment and 3 regiemtns per division. The idea was one attacks and find and fix the enemy, one maneuvers to outflank and the third is in reserve. It was called the holding attack and it was the basis for all doctrine, platoon through division. The holding attack also worked by the artillery pounding the enemy. Advances in communications allowed the US Army artillery to work closely with the infantry and provide converging fires. MArshall also realized that this doctrine simplified the training of a citizen army in time of mobilization...in essence what we had in WW II. Now, as a leader, I was always trained that use firepower before people. This did not mean my units were not aggressive. The same is true for the US Infantry in WW II (and other wars). While there were set backs along the way (Kasserine, Winter Line, Saipan, Huertegen Forest), ultimately, the American Infantryman was never stopped. Now I mention Saipan....there has always been contention about what happened there between the 2 Smith's. There is no question that the regimental commanders of the 27 ID did not do all they should have. But Marine LTG Smith did not fully realize 2 things a. The difficulty the Army troops faced in the center, and b. the Army units were attempting to conduct holding attacks....just as they were trained. This is often shown as an example of the lack of aggresiveness of US Infantry in the Pacific. But it is only one instance and there are no other instances of it in the Southwest PAcific Area (and all Army fight). I can talk of many instances of extrememly aggressive actions taken by conventional units throughout the war. But then, the American dogface has neve rbeen the glamorous choice....he just went out and fought the war.
 
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timon_phocas    RE:American Infantry Thru History    10/8/2004 12:35:34 PM
What I do see in American infantry is a quality of leadership, that diffuses down to the lowest ranks. It really comes to play in situations like Omaha Beach or Tarawa. When the chain of command is broken the leaders (they might be colonels or corporals) see what needs to be done, yell out the orders and fix the problems. This is a constant theme I run across from colonial attacks on Port Royal to hasty roadblocks set up again and again by bypassed American units in the Ardennes. It makes me proud to have shared a small part of that haritage.
 
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Tigerassault    RE:The world's most COWARDLY infantry: The US Army & the British Army   10/10/2004 3:44:51 AM
The American and the British armies are the world's most cowardly armies today. (Lets keep 1812 and 1944 out of this) Hell! Cowardly, not becoz force was used to topple undesirable governments.... not because you declared war in the 1st place..... not even becoz of the way you chose to engage the enemy.... But cowardly because you chose to bomb innocent women and babies from the skies and from deep cover rather than get out in the open and fight like men. In Iraq, your enemy stills walks the streets killing, looting and rampaging at will, while your soldiers huddle around a few bunkers in central baghdad and call in for general air strikes. Ditto for the Brits in Basra.
 
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USN-MID    RE:The world's most COWARDLY infantry: The US Army & the British Army   10/10/2004 5:13:10 AM
Tigerassault, you're sadly misinformed.
 
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PacEMakeR    RE:The world's most COWARDLY infantry: The US Army & the British Army - Tigerassault   10/10/2004 11:48:19 AM
As a fellow Indian (you are Indian?), I have to say that you are a complete and utter prat. Analyse situations before you post. Then think again before hitting the 'post reply' button. Then post.
 
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