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Subject: Best Infantry : The Viet Cong?
GreyJackal    10/29/2006 8:59:06 AM
I saw this documentary on the History channel where they said during hard times in the Vietnam War, Viet cong were able to march upto 30 miles a day on one meal(usually a bowl of rice). They also were known to be very effective in mannually clearing out roads through jungles, dig lots of underground tunnels many over 50 miles long. They also pulled heavy artillery up difficult mountains mannually. It seems that these guys were very dedicated, obedient and durable infantry. Could they be the best infantry ever?
 
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GOP       11/6/2006 11:21:20 PM

GOP, you are getting far too defencive over this.  Nobody has called American infantry second rate here

 

Concerning laser designators and CAS dropping SDB's etc though, what do you think this achieves?

 

Does it eliminate the enemy?  Sure it does.  Although that means little in itself, despite preventing the enemy from eliminating you, it does allow you to follow on and take posssion of the land the enemy occupied.

 

What it doesn't do however, is give you prisoners of war, nor does it allow you to take documents off enemy dead (their being near incinerated).  Both of these are sources of intelligence which can have far greater war-winning properties than blowing up the Jihadist carrying them.

 

After all, we are not fighting some second rate Arabic power in conventional warfare, we are fighting terrorists and guerillas.

 


Yes, I am too defensive over this...I apologize. I am also very biased here, as I know several Marines and a few Soldiers. I don't like it when our troops are compared to those of Norway and other similar nations. They have gone into harms way, done a d*mn fine job, and have accomplished far more than any Norwegian soldier has in a long time. I wonder how the norwegian soldiers would do in real world combat, with real bullets and real enemies. Our infantry is very good, and like most things, certain infantrymen are better than others.
As far as the JDAM, my point is that you foreigners are too quick to say "You only win because of airpower", when in fact, airpower is the most effective way to destroy a concentrated group of jihadist.
 
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Yimmy       11/6/2006 11:29:49 PM
Er.... GOP.... The Norwegians arn't the best example for you to pick if you were aiming at a nation which has infarioer infantrymen, I think Austria is more what you were looking for.
 
Where it comes to arctic operations, nobody comes close to the Norwegians (least of all the Swedes).
 
 
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joe6pack    Yimmy   11/7/2006 12:29:02 AM

Joe, what are your thoughts on the rate of promotion in the US forces?

 

For instance, it is common knowledge that in the US you get promoted far faster than in the Commonwealth.

 


Albany covered a lot of it.  I'll just add a few odds and ends (mostly from the enlisted side of things).
 
Barring screwing up, promotion up to E-4 (specialist) is pretty much a much a matter of simply doing time.  I've forgotten the exact time frames but E-1 to E-2 in about 6 months.  E-2 to E-3 at about 18 months of service and E-3 to E-4 in about 26 or so months of service.  Being a good troop would likely speed this along somewhat.   At that point to be promoted to E-5 Sergeant you have to go to a promotion board.  Depending on your MOS and the need for E-5's there is a set number of "points" you need to be promoted.  You earn certain numbers of points for things like military education / schools, civillian education, PT score, awards and decorations, marksmanship, and points from appearing in front of the board itself (a truly scary experience for an E-4)   You also have to take and pass PLDC (primary leadership development course).  After a minimum time in grade you are eligible for promotion to E-6 which is more or less the same process, same with promotion to E-7. There are leadership courses for each of those as well.
 
All that being said, when I joined the army in the very early 90's the army was in the process of drawing down and had put in place a number of measures to cut the force down.  For example they had a policy of upward or out.  If you failed to be promoted out of your particular pay grade in a specific number of years, that was it - good bye.  They also took to scrutinizing records.  I had a platoon sergeant (E-7) that had screwed up as PFC (well over a decade prior) and the army basicly gave him an early retirement.
 
Mostly I think the US system is pretty good.  Taking a look at it, you probably think that moving from E-1 (PVT) to E-2 (still PVT) to E-3 (PFC) is pretty fast and it is.  However, as Albany mentioned its more about the pay.  Their responsibilities are all pretty much the same.  E-4 (specialist or corporal) things change a little bit.  You can either be an over paid private or an under paid junior nco.  If you are short E-5's a corporal or squared away specialist often act as a fire team leader. 

 
 
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DropBear    GOP   11/7/2006 12:31:42 AM
OK, well the great OZ and British militaries can claim to be the best infantrymen. Who really cares? While yall are off getting shot up by a group of insurgents 200 yards away, we will call in CAS and send them to Allah.
 
Newsflash sport!
 
We haven't lost ONE soldier to insurgents or combat in either Iraq or Afghanistan.
 
Two Diggers have died in Iraq. One SASR Warrant Officer was run over by a mate and the other was a 3RAR Para sniper who accidently had a gun discharge in his barracks and was shot in the head.
 
You can keep your tanks and Apaches, we'll keep on soldiering.
 
 
 
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gf0012-aust       11/7/2006 12:48:35 AM

Er.... GOP.... The Norwegians arn't the best example for you to pick if you were aiming at a nation which has infarioer infantrymen, I think Austria is more what you were looking for.

 

Where it comes to arctic operations, nobody comes close to the Norwegians (least of all the Swedes).

 



slagging off at the norwegian arctics is akin to saying that the romans were lousy engineers...
 
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ArtyEngineer    Experience   11/7/2006 1:33:13 AM
Some of you may find these graphs for the british army interesting, found them at the following site:
 
 
Officers
 
http://www.dasasurveys.mod.uk/php/dp/images/110a.gif">http://www.dasasurveys.mod.uk/php/dp/images/110a.gif" width=642 border=0>
 
Other Ranks
 
http://www.dasasurveys.mod.uk/php/dp/images/110b.gif">http://www.dasasurveys.mod.uk/php/dp/images/110b.gif" width=638 border=0>
 
 
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Jawan       11/7/2006 5:11:40 AM

The VC were incredibly resilient and their ability to endure
hardship was what made them so tough (and capable when you put them into the
context of the conflict). But that's all i'd say for them...


I agree with DA, the standard US infantryman or marine is the
best infantry ever in the histroy of the world (in every single conceivable way).

Yea right LOL, "history of the world". U must be nutes to make a claim like that !!!!

 
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Yimmy       11/7/2006 9:36:13 AM
I don't understand how those charts can be correct.
 
How can someone be a Major in their first year of service for instance? A brain surgeon or somesuch given an automatic high rank for the pay scale perhaps?
 
How can someone be a corpral in their first year also? Perhaps a TA Sgt who transfered into the regular amy (it is common to go down a rank or two).
 
 
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GOP       11/7/2006 11:09:58 AM

OK, well the great OZ and British militaries can claim to be the best infantrymen. Who really cares? While yall are off getting shot up by a group of insurgents 200 yards away, we will call in CAS and send them to Allah.
 

Newsflash sport!

 

We haven't lost ONE soldier to insurgents or combat in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

 

Two Diggers have died in Iraq. One SASR Warrant Officer was run over by a mate and the other was a 3RAR Para sniper who accidently had a gun discharge in his barracks and was shot in the head.

 

You can keep your tanks and Apaches, we'll keep on soldiering.

 

 



We have lost more soldiers because: 1) We are the insurgents primary target, and 2) we have 140,000 troops in Iraq. The whole Tank and JDAM thing is overrated, we don't use those anywhere near as much as you would think. We are also very fine soldiers.
 
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DropBear       11/7/2006 11:13:33 AM
 
Our soldiers are equally fine.
 
 
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