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India-Pakistan: Terrorists Trounced in the Tribal Territories
   Next Article → MORALE: Desperately Seeking The Elephant
November 3, 2009: Two weeks of fighting in South Waziristan have left nearly 400 Taliban and al Qaeda dead, along with about 40 soldiers. Nearly has many Pakistani civilians and security personnel have been killed by terror attacks. While there are high (media) profile operations, they have little impact on Pakistani military capabilities, and have increased public support for the military offensive in the tribal territories.

Pakistan has seven brigades of troops advancing into South Waziristan, while another seven brigades guard the roads and easy escape routes. Some of the terrorists will escape, but it won't be easy. With Winter beginning, it will be dangerous trying to sneak out of the area cross country. The South Waziristan operation has destroyed dozens of terrorist safe houses, training areas and weapons storage sites. Large quantities of documents have been seized. This included passports belonging to known terrorists who had been involved in the September 11, 2001 attacks, and subsequent operations in Europe and Arab countries.

The Pakistani army has captured several towns and villages in South Waziristan, including Krama and Kanigurram, which were known bases for various local and foreign terrorist groups. For years, Pakistan insisted that there were no such terrorist bases in the tribal territories. The army expects to be done with South Waziristan by the end of the year, At that point, there might be a similar operation in North Waziristan, unless enough of the tribes up there agree to cooperate in clearing out Islamic terror groups. With each such operations, the Islamic terrorist groups become weaker, but do not disappear. As long as the Islamic terrorists have cash and a few guns, they can find a new place to hide in the tribal territories, or across the border in Afghanistan. But while on the run, the Islamic terrorists are much less effective. Since these groups thrive from the publicity their violent attacks produce, less violence will kill them.

Across the country, Pakistani police have been rounding up the usual terrorist suspects, resulting in over a thousand arrests. This even includes some terrorist groups that had long been tolerated because most of their operations were against India. But now Pakistan is accusing India of supporting Islamic terror groups inside Pakistan. No proof is offered, but it is important for the Pakistani government to deflect blame from itself, for tolerating, and even encouraging, Islamic radical groups for the last three decades. The current round of Islamic terror attacks on Pakistani civilians has the country in an uproar, and politicians and religious leaders are demanding that something be done. Several hundred foreigners (most of them Arabs) in cities, like Karachi, have been arrested.

The UN has ordered its foreign staff out of the Pakistani tribal territories, because of the danger of kidnapping, or getting killed by a terrorist attack. Islamic terrorists consider the UN hostile to Islam, and a front for espionage.

November 2, 2009: In Rawalpindi, Pakistan, Islamic terrorists set off a bomb 500 meters from army headquarters, killing at least 35 people. Pakistan is offering a reward of $5 million for Pakistani Taliban leader Hakimullah Mehsud.

November 1, 2009: In Indian Kashmir, Islamic terrorists killed two policemen. Near the Khyber Pass, in Pakistan, Islamic terrorists destroyed a girl's school.

October 31, 2009: In Pakistan, seven soldiers were killed near the Khyber pass, by a roadside bomb.

October 30, 2009: India accused Pakistan of violating the ceasefire in Kashmir, by firing 14 mortar shells at Indian troops, who were chasing down Islamic terrorists trying to cross the border (LOC or Line of Control.)

October 28, 2009: In Indian Kashmir, three Islamic terrorists were killed in two separate incidents.

October 27, 2009:  Islamic terrorists struck back with a suicide car bomb in Peshawar, Pakistan, the largest city in the tribal territories, going off in a marker place, killing over a hundred, mostly women and children. In western India, a train with nearly 700 people on board, was seized by Maoist rebels. Police later drove the rebels away. Because of this, and several other recent attacks on trains, more police and troops are being assigned to guard trains that pass through Maoist infested territory.

Next Article → MORALE: Desperately Seeking The Elephant
  
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Hari Sud    Pakistani victories are limited   11/3/2009 9:20:39 AM
 
The author of this paper is singing Pakistani Army tune. To appear successful they are releasing very calculated information. It is far from the truth.
 
28,000 soldiers the Pak Army has sent to quell insuregency by a determined insurgent who defeated the British a hundred fifty years back in the same area, is completely insufficient. They need to send 280,000 soldiers to control 15,000 motivated insurgents. Right now the army is following the main roads and capturing empty towns in its path. They gave enough time for the insurgents to withdraw and move to the safety of mountains and caves. The ensurgents are working on entrapping the army in pockets, same way as they did to the British (Soviets never came to this area)
 
My above views are being echoed by others in Pakistan. Take e.g Pakistani newspaper "Dawn". It has a headline news saying success is limited. 
 
 
 "Meanwhile, a Taliban spokesman has denied Pakistan's claims of battlefield victories in the South Waziristan offensive, saying the militants are drawing government soldiers into a trap.

Azam Tariq says the militants are purposefully withdrawing from some areas to bring government soldiers further into Taliban territory.

He said in a telephone call Tuesday with The Associated Press that ?We are prepared for a long war.?

Tariq also denied army claims that dozens of militants have been killed, saying only 11 have died so far."
 
Cheers
 
 
Quote    Reply

Captain Slog       11/3/2009 10:00:05 AM
I know it is a poor country, but still, $5 seems a very poor reward!
 
 
Quote    Reply

Beazz       11/3/2009 12:30:24 PM

 

The author of this paper is singing Pakistani Army tune. To appear successful they are releasing very calculated information. It is far from the truth.

 

28,000 soldiers the Pak Army has sent to quell insuregency by a determined insurgent who defeated the British a hundred fifty years back in the same area, is completely insufficient. They need to send 280,000 soldiers to control 15,000 motivated insurgents. Right now the army is following the main roads and capturing empty towns in its path. They gave enough time for the insurgents to withdraw and move to the safety of mountains and caves. The ensurgents are working on entrapping the army in pockets, same way as they did to the British (Soviets never came to this area)

 

My above views are being echoed by others in Pakistan. Take e.g Pakistani newspaper "Dawn". It has a headline news saying success is limited. 

 

It has quoted Taliban spokesman as follows:   (link
 

 "Meanwhile, a Taliban spokesman has denied Pakistan's claims of battlefield victories in the South Waziristan offensive, saying the militants are drawing government soldiers into a trap.

Azam Tariq says the militants are purposefully withdrawing from some areas to bring government soldiers further into Taliban territory.


He said in a telephone call Tuesday with The Associated Press that ?We are prepared for a long war.?


Tariq also denied army claims that dozens of militants have been killed, saying only 11 have died so far."

 

Cheers

 




You seem to put a lot of faith into what the Taliban say don't you? Personally I wouldn't even take what those useless clowns say with a grain of salt. That even gives them to much credit. They're trapping the Pakistani army just like Sadaam Hussein was going have the mother of all battles with US forces and same way US forces were 100's of miles from Baghdad while the entire world could see they were posied at the outskirts and entered and took control of it the next day. These thugs lie like most people breath air. It's all they know to do and they aren't even good at that.
 
Beazz
 
Quote    Reply

Hari Sud       11/3/2009 1:46:46 PM
 
yes, Beazz, you are right. Saddam had nothing to show for his mother all battles. Also he was battling a bunch of super powers together.
 
But Pushtun in Pakistani NWFP have credentials to prove. They threw the British out. They threw the invading Pakistani army out in 1960. Moreover Pakistan is no match for the combined US and British power. As said before 28,000 troops to control 15,000 determined Pushtuns is no match. You need ten times that force.
 
Cheers
 
Quote    Reply

EvanH       11/3/2009 2:10:06 PM
"28,000 soldiers the Pak Army has sent to quell insuregency by a determined insurgent who defeated the British a hundred fifty years back in the same area, is completely insufficient."
 
People forgett hat the British didn't have helicopters, cells phones, aircraft or smart bombs.  Yes, the Russians did have helicopters and bombers, but couldn't attack the Pushtuns in thier safe areas.  The Pakistani army can.  Also keep in mind that the Pushtuns are NOT a homogeneous population; the Talibs have a lot of enemies among their own people.
 
Quote    Reply

WarNerd       11/3/2009 3:38:59 PM


The author of this paper is singing Pakistani Army tune. To appear successful they are releasing very calculated information. It is far from the truth.

28,000 soldiers the Pak Army has sent to quell insurgency by a determined insurgent who defeated the British a hundred fifty years back in the same area, is completely insufficient. They need to send 280,000 soldiers to control 15,000 motivated insurgents. Right now the army is following the main roads and capturing empty towns in its path. They gave enough time for the insurgents to withdraw and move to the safety of mountains and caves. The insurgents are working on entrapping the army in pockets, same way as they did to the British (Soviets never came to this area)

My above views are being echoed by others in Pakistan. Take e.g Pakistani newspaper "Dawn". It has a headline news saying success is limited. 

It has quoted Taliban spokesman as follows:   (link

 "Meanwhile, a Taliban spokesman has denied Pakistan's claims of battlefield victories in the South Waziristan offensive, saying the militants are drawing government soldiers into a trap.

Azam Tariq says the militants are purposefully withdrawing from some areas to bring government soldiers further into Taliban territory.

He said in a telephone call Tuesday with The Associated Press that ?We are prepared for a long war.?

 
Tariq also denied army claims that dozens of militants have been killed, saying only 11 have died so far."
 
You seem to put a lot of faith into what the Taliban say don't you? Personally I wouldn't even take what those useless clowns say with a grain of salt. That even gives them to much credit. They're trapping the Pakistani army just like Saddam Hussein was going have the mother of all battles with US forces and same way US forces were 100's of miles from Baghdad while the entire world could see they were posed at the outskirts and entered and took control of it the next day. These thugs lie like most people breath air. It's all they know to do and they aren't even good at that.
 
Frankly, barring independent confirmation, I would not put much faith in press releases of either side.  To get a better picture multiply each sides estimates of their own casualties by 3 and divide their estimates of enemy casualties by 5, then average all the casualty numbers for each group.
 
Remember also that the objectives and methods of the two sides are radically different.  It is entirely possible that both sides will claim victory based on their own definition.  The Taliban does not have to defeat the Pakistan Army, it just needs to maintain enough local support and key personnel to remain operational in Pakistan.  The Pakistani government does not need to hunt down and destroy the Taliban, just convince them to direct all their efforts outside of Pakistan and against India and Afghanistan.
 
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cwDeici       11/7/2009 3:42:27 PM
I despise the Pak army normally, but they have won for now. Unfortunately the leadership has escaped.
The casualty rates are probably somewhat inflated. However a lot of the djihadis have deserted. 
 
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