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Subject: The Coalition to Preserve Civilization
sofa    2/27/2007 11:27:35 AM
from:"http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/11/coalition-to-preserve-civilization.html"
link

Read the whole thing.
excerpts below.
---
The Coalition to Preserve Civilization
by Baron Bodissey

The Great Islamic Jihad is certain that Western Civilization is about to come to an end.

Islamic Fascism looks forward to the rule of the new Caliphate, in which the whole world will swear submission to Allah and bow five times a day towards Mecca. It aims to kill or enslave every person who will not accept its twisted vision of Islam. With the help of its allies among the world?s dictators and within our own media, it is confident that it will achieve its goal.

But even as this beast tears at our throats, a new defensive force is being born, a determination to preserve all that is good and right and true within the Western world. Even as we are abandoned by our leaders, by the sophists in our academies, and by the propagandists of our major media, ordinary people are connecting with one another, and are ready to stand up and defeat those who would destroy us.
...
It?s time to wake up.

There is no way to escape it, no matter what our policies, and whoever our elected representatives are. There is no escape because our enemies are fully committed to our destruction, and they will not stop until they have either destroyed us, or have been destroyed.

That is our choice: we can win or lose, but we cannot opt out and walk away from the greatest threat and most resistant threat this country has ever faced.
 
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sofa       2/27/2007 11:30:28 AM
from:"http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2004/10/newest-phase-of-very-old-war.html"
link
 
Never Forget.
 
Read the whole thing.
Excerpt below.
---

The Newest Phase of a Very Old War

by Baron Bodissey

Some people refer to the current war as the GWoT (Global War on Terror). Others call it WWIV (Norman Podhoretz). We at Gates of Vienna prefer to call it GIJ3W: The Great Islamic Jihad, Third Wave.

This conflict of cultures has endured for more than a millenium. The first wave began with the conquest of Mecca by Mohammed in 630 CE. It crested in Al Andalus (Moorish Spain) in 711, only receding in 1492 when Los Reyes Católicos entered Granada.

The second wave began when Osman raided Western Byzantium in 1299 and founded the Ottoman Empire. It crested during the reign of Süleyman I in the 16th century, and receded after the failure of the second siege of Vienna under Kara Mustafa in 1683.

From our perspective at the dawn of the 21st century it is hard to realize that a little more than three centuries ago the whole of Christian civilization was threatened. When the Turks stood at the Gates of Vienna it seemed that all of Europe would be overrun by the legions of the Prophet.

This war never ended.
 
 
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sofa       2/27/2007 11:36:42 AM
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
 
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Plutarch       2/27/2007 11:48:21 AM

from:"http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2004/10/newest-phase-of-very-old-war.html"

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2004/10/newest-phase-of-very-old-war.html
" target="_blank">link " href_cetemp=" link ">link
 

Never Forget.

 

Read the whole thing.

Excerpt below.

---


The Newest Phase of a Very Old War


by Baron Bodissey





Some people refer to the current war as the GWoT (Global War on Terror). Others call it WWIV (Norman Podhoretz). We at Gates of Vienna prefer to call it GIJ3W: The Great Islamic Jihad, Third Wave.

This conflict of cultures has endured for more than a millenium. The first wave began with the conquest of Mecca by Mohammed in 630 CE. It crested in Al Andalus (Moorish Spain) in 711, only receding in 1492 when Los Reyes Católicos entered Granada.

The second wave began when Osman raided Western Byzantium in 1299 and founded the Ottoman Empire. It crested during the reign of Süleyman I in the 16th century, and receded after the failure of the second siege of Vienna under Kara Mustafa in 1683.

From our perspective at the dawn of the 21st century it is hard to realize that a little more than three centuries ago the whole of Christian civilization was threatened. When the Turks stood at the Gates of Vienna it seemed that all of Europe would be overrun by the legions of the Prophet.

This war never ended.

 




A very poor understanding of history, and how Great Powers interact, and could be construed as borderline racist.
 
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sofa       2/27/2007 12:22:09 PM
If Poland had not saved Vienna in 1683, would there be "a west". Would western civilization exist?
I think western civilization is worth defending.
 
Plutarch- Do you think defending western civilization is racist? Defending multiculturalism and free speech is racist?
How about koran inspired islamofacism, is that racist?
 
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sofa       2/27/2007 12:27:01 PM
If Poland had not saved Vienna in 1683, would there be "a west". Would western civilization exist?
I think western civilization is worth defending.
 
Plutarch- Do you think defending western civilization is racist? Defending multiculturalism and free speech is racist?
How about koran inspired islamofacism, is that racist?
 
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sofa       2/27/2007 12:34:22 PM
Refer to the Koran/Hadiths and to current events; then explain how anything in the linked article exaggerate the threat.
Other than naming the threat, the website dares the west to defend itself.
 
Civilizationist = A slur applied to those who prefer civilization over murder, chaos, and slavery.
 
 
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sofa       2/27/2007 12:34:45 PM
Refer to the Koran/Hadiths and to current events; then explain how anything in the linked article exaggerate the threat.
Other than naming the threat, the website dares the west to defend itself.
 
Civilizationist = A slur applied to those who prefer civilization over murder, chaos, and slavery.
 
 
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SGTObvious       2/27/2007 12:36:31 PM

If Poland had not saved Vienna in 1683, would there be "a west". Would western civilization exist?

I think western civilization is worth defending.

 
I agree, Western civilization is worth defending.  I would proudly add:  "at the expense of islamic civilization, if necessary".
 
Western Civilization:  It's Cool!
 
 
SGTObvious
 
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sofa       2/27/2007 12:41:46 PM
don't know why duplicate posts. sorry.
 
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sofa       2/27/2007 12:43:04 PM
"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
 
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sofa    Poland saved the west in 1683   2/27/2007 12:44:02 PM
 
How Poland saved the west in 1683, at the gates of vienna.
 
"http://www.answers.com/topic/siege-of-vienna"
http://www.answers.com/topic/siege-of-vienna
" target="_blank">link " link
 
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sofa    While France was, well, French   2/27/2007 12:45:33 PM
 
While France attacked within europe and formed economic ties to the ottomans...
 
Louis ruthlessly used the occasion, before and after the battle of Vienna, to annex territories in western Europe, such as Luxembourg, Alsace with Strasbourg, etc. Due to the ongoing war against the Turks, Austria could not support the interest of German allies in the West. The biography of Ezechiel du Mas, Comte de Melac illustrates the devastastions of large parts of Southern Germany by France.
 
After the Muslim Armies were driven back from the Gates of Vienna in 1683, the Alliance which defeated them wanted to form a more complete European Alliance to drive them out of the conquered territories of Eastern Europe.

But France for one, which had extensive economic ties with the Ottoman Empire, was not interested.

 
History repeats itself.
 
 
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Plutarch       2/27/2007 2:07:38 PM

If Poland had not saved Vienna in 1683, would there be "a west". Would western civilization exist?

I think western civilization is worth defending.

 

Plutarch- Do you think defending western civilization is racist? Defending multiculturalism and free speech is racist?

How about koran inspired islamofacism, is that racist?


The implication of your thread is that if the Ottomans had not been defeated at Vienna in 1683 then they would have marched all throughout Europe, and spread Islam with them, and that this would "destroy" 1600 years of Christianity in Europe.

 

Several points:

 

1.)  It was never clear that the Ottomans would force Islamic conversions onto their subjects, in fact the history of the Ottomans shows the exact opposite:  Through the vilayet system the Ottomans were only concerned with exacting tribute from their subjects.  Through this system the local peoples kept their own languages, customs, and religion.

 

2.)  The Ottomans did conquer the Balkans yet the customs and religions of those peoples remained intact and today Bosnian Moslems are a small minority there.  The Ottomans had other desires in conquering land (expanding power and wealth) than just spreading Islam.

 

3.)  You also assume that 1,600 years of Christianity would be wiped out, and that the Ottomans had the manpower to do this; incorrect.  The Iberian Peninsula was occupied by Arab and Berber Moslems for nearly a thousand years, yet there is little evidence that the Islamic religion whitewashed the predominately Catholic Spain and Portugal.

 

4.)  You also assume that the Ottomans could hold that vast territory with no local resistance (i.e. no German, French or Austrian rebellions to quell, which would seem unlikely). 

 

5.)  You also forget the "Christian invasions" of Moslem land from the Crusades to the Reconquestia; 300 years of European invasions that we are embarking on again. (Why do you think bin Laden calls us "Crusaders"?)

 

link

 

 

 

So again this current fight against Islamic extremists is not a continuation of the 1683 invasion or the Battle of Tours.

 

link

 
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sofa       2/27/2007 3:12:56 PM
It's a continuation of Islam: 1400 years of murder, mayhem, aggression, slavery, butchery, and ignorance, as spelled out in the koran/hadiths.
 
"It's in the Koran": What we call 'civilisation' is anathema to islam.  
 
So what's your plan for peaceful co-existence between islam and every other way of life?  How about between islam and false muslims? 
 
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Plutarch       2/27/2007 3:23:15 PM

It's a continuation of Islam: 1400 years of murder, mayhem, aggression, slavery, butchery, and ignorance, as spelled out in the koran/hadiths.

 

"It's in the Koran": What we call 'civilisation' is anathema to islam.  

 

So what's your plan for peaceful co-existence between islam and every other way of life?  How about between islam and false muslims? 


Those are what I would call "borderline racist" statements.
 

BTW---I am still waiting for your response to my post on the Iraq board.
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
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