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Subject: The Change is Beginning Christianity vs Islam
RaptorZ    2/23/2006 3:28:18 PM
I have harped on this subject for several posts being called everything from basically an idiot to an outright racist. Moderate Muslims must speak out and take control before something worse happens. When the Vatican becomes more vocal for protection of Christianity and such, those who value Islam best pay attention. I am not Catholic but know, from history, if the church gets involved at these high levels things are not going to turn for the better unless some middle ground can be found. Believe it or not Christians can be just as fanatical as the radical muslims. Let's not go down that path. ----------------------------------------------- Vatican to Muslims: practice what you preach Email this Story Feb 23, 12:54 PM (ET) By Tom Heneghan, Religion Editor PARIS (Reuters) - After backing calls by Muslims for respect for their religion in the Mohammad cartoons row, the Vatican is now urging Islamic countries to reciprocate by showing more tolerance toward their Christian minorities. Roman Catholic leaders at first said Muslims were right to be outraged when Western newspapers reprinted Danish caricatures of the Prophet, including one with a bomb in his turban. Most Muslims consider any images of Mohammad to be blasphemous. After criticizing both the cartoons and the violent protests in Muslim countries that followed, the Vatican this week linked the issue to its long-standing concern that the rights of other faiths are limited, sometimes severely, in Muslim countries. Vatican prelates have been concerned by recent killings of two Catholic priests in Turkey and Nigeria. Turkish media linked the death there to the cartoons row. At least 146 Christians and Muslims have died in five days of religious riots in Nigeria. "If we tell our people they have no right to offend, we have to tell the others they have no right to destroy us," Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the Vatican's Secretary of State (prime minister), told journalists in Rome. "We must always stress our demand for reciprocity in political contacts with authorities in Islamic countries and, even more, in cultural contacts," Foreign Minister Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo told the daily Corriere della Sera. Reciprocity -- allowing Christian minorities the same rights as Muslims generally have in Western countries, such as building houses of worship or practicing religion freely -- is at the heart of Vatican diplomacy toward Muslim states. Vatican diplomats argue that limits on Christians in some Islamic countries are far harsher than restrictions in the West that Muslims decry, such as France's ban on headscarves in state schools. Saudi Arabia bans all public expression of any non-Muslim religion and sometimes arrests Christians even for worshipping privately. Pakistan allows churches to operate but its Islamic laws effectively deprive Christians of many rights. Both countries are often criticized at the United Nations Human Rights Commission for violating religious freedoms. "ENOUGH TURNING THE OTHER CHEEK" Pope Benedict signaled his concern on Monday when he told the new Moroccan ambassador to the Vatican that peace can only be assured by "respect for the religious convictions and practices of others, in a reciprocal way in all societies." He mentioned no countries by name. Morocco is tolerant of other religions, but like all Muslim countries frowns on conversion from Islam to another faith. Iraqi Christians say they were well treated under Saddam Hussein's secular policies, but believers have been killed, churches burned and women forced to wear Muslim garb since Islamic groups gained sway after the U.S.-led invasion in 2003. Christians make up only a tiny fraction of the population in most Muslim countries. War and political pressure in recent decades have forced many to emigrate from Middle Eastern communities dating back to just after the time of Jesus. As often happens at the Vatican, lower-level officials have been more outspoken than the Pope and his main aides. "Enough now with this turning the other cheek! It's our duty to protect ourselves," Monsignor Velasio De Paolis, secretary of the Vatican's supreme court, thundered in the daily La Stampa. Jesus told his followers to "turn the other cheek" when struck. "The West has had relations with the Arab countries for half a century, mostly for oil, and has not been able to get the slightest concession on human rights," he said. Bishop Rino Fisichella, head of one of the Roman universities that train young priests from around the world, told Corriere della Sera the Vatican should speak out more. "Let's drop this diplomatic silence," said the rector of the Pontifical Lateran University. "We should put pressure on international organizations to make the societies and states in majority Muslim countries face up to their responsibilities."
 
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kane    RE:USSMC   3/3/2006 1:30:40 PM
"(come and see Turkey) I from Melbourne, Australia. There a lot Turks around my are. And I'll tell U this; - they are trouble makers - they have no respect for others - they pick on people smaller than them - I had a bad childhood because of them - they're sexual predators - and they stink! " YES many bad educated,unmodernized medieval people from Turkey went to Germany,netherlands,France and Australia tell me if your farmers smell good.OK they're not in farms in AUTRALIA but their life style is diffrent they make trouble because they're afraid to lose their identity like the ones in Germany there are trouble makers in everywhere though
 
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kane    RE:USSMC   3/3/2006 1:33:55 PM
"Again this is the turks fault. I had a bad school education because of those smelly wogs! " i see that why you're so prejudice
 
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kane    RE:trustedsourceinfo   3/3/2006 1:38:36 PM
bin ladin and other arab terrorists bombed Turkey too we don't like and don't support them make research from every source use muslim sources too or you'll just blame Muslims by using your standart sentence"those fukkin bastard moslems"--this annoys me you dark skinned,english puppet, fast reproducer.... indian(still no cursing)
 
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Azmodius    RE:Moderate Islam, I have encountered   3/3/2006 3:32:52 PM
My point in asking if muslims drink alcohol was just to prove a a point. earlier in the thread mustavaris mentioned he has met moderate muslims and had a beer with them. if allah forbids it yet they are drinking, that doesnt change the fact that the koran still says dont drink alcohol no matter what the followers are doing or not doing. it doesnt suddenly mean that islam has been moderated. islam didnt change, the individual follower did. so to ignore the vast majority of muslims and the book they follow based on meeting a professed muslim who in reality isnt really acting like a muslim is crazy.
 
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Mex101    RE:trustedsourceinfo   3/3/2006 3:33:58 PM
It was a joke(my last thread). I thought It would be funny. yes the poor have a big part in US history, however, Rich People like Washington were needed. The Irish,Germans,Italyians and many others in that past were poor. That sort of imagration is the biggist deffernce that this nation has to other countries in the world. It also has an other one, It is the most powerfull. These poor were looking to make something of themselfs and always will. The Muslims that Azmodious and others are talking about may not of cared about the future as much as the Irish or Mexicans Or Germans do. Would this countery be a unstable state, Maybe. I wouldn't put it past thim. However, I understand that not all Muslims like the Idae of jihad. Culturealy I belive that the Middle East has the same mindset of Mid Evil Europe, Greed, Power, Extrime Religion.
 
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Azmodius    RE:trustedsourceinfo   3/3/2006 4:11:49 PM
"Would this countery be a unstable state, Maybe. I wouldn't put it past thim. However, I understand that not all Muslims like the Idae of jihad. Culturealy I belive that the Middle East has the same mindset of Mid Evil Europe, Greed, Power, Extrime Religion" The point of contention for me is WHY do the muslims of today have the same mind set of medevil europe? its because their religion demands it. its not that they chose or can choose to operate islam any differently. the koran tells them how to live and how to deal with almost everything. And if the koran doesnt change then the people cant change and still call themselves muslim. I think there are a people scattered throughout every muslim country that dont like jihad and probably only claim to be muslim so they dont get killed by their neighbors/family. Now that i think about it though, muslims have ALWAYS had this mindset.......
 
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USSMC    RE:kane   3/3/2006 11:01:08 PM
((i see that why you're so prejudice)) That's right kane. Damn those ugly, smelly, hairy, wogs. Even turkish girls has hair on their chest. They make me sick. Those girls are either guys dress as girls, or their transexual. And why do they wear those head scarf or whatever you call it. Do they have nits? Do their hair stinks? It's really is an eye sore and a discrace to see it in the western world. Anyway I believe they should be strip off of their citzenship. They are rude and have no respect. This also includes all those middle eastern arab kebabs. cheers...
 
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USSMC    RE:mex101   3/3/2006 11:38:40 PM
(( I belive that the Middle East has the same mindset of Mid Evil Europe, Greed, Power, Extrime Religion.)) I strongly support you here. Middle East is hell. Europe never had an extreme religion, except muslims in europe ofcourse.
 
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trustedsourceofinfo    RE:Kane   3/4/2006 12:40:57 AM
""bin ladin and other arab terrorists bombed Turkey too we don't like and don't support them make research from every source"" --->OK...Now tell meone thing...Did Turks come out and protest those attacks.. You protested in tens of thousands against the cartoonists..Abt 60K showed up protesting EU's decision against including Turkey.. So you do protest in numbers... Either present me with proof abt protest against those attacks or shut up abt ur secular credentials...
 
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trustedsourceofinfo    RE:Kane-I   3/4/2006 1:02:07 AM
Let me predict a couple of things. 1.You will NOT present any proof abt Turks protesting against the Bin Laden bombing. 2.You will NOT present ANY reason WHy the turks DIDNT protest against the bombings in turkey... Since ,I am so confident that neither you or Pars or any other Moslem from Turkey will prove me wrong-May I suggest that we move onto the histrionics behind those bombings in Turkey... I will NOW prove that even the Turks are the same fukking bastards as the rest of the Al Qaeda clan.Albeit,you've not beein wielding weapons yet.... Here's the chance for you punks to prove me wrong...Grab it...read up the web and prove me wrong... And to make it easy for you'll I'll ignire the fact that the suicide bombers were Turkish people and not explicitly Al Qaeda members.. ANy more concessions needed?
 
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