Islamic warriors and innocent civilians?

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trustedsourceofinfo RE:Here's the clincher... 2/23/2006 2:09:30 AM

Pars-you really surprise me... If there is an Allah,as in one God,why does he have to distinguish between people of different religions.Since God never ever created those religions. Now-read carefully... THOSE WHO BELIEVE....here's the keyword...BELIEVE(in the Koran)...and therefater...those who follow the scriptures..and the sAbians... and then the idolators are mentioned too... Why Does God JUDGE BETWEEN them based on what they FOLLOW.... I liked the emphasis on believing in the Koran within the verse.... How clearly it differentiates between the believers and the OTHERS... You take this verse to any English reading guy and he'll explain to you the staring difference..It isnt even subtle... Clearly Allah judges between people on what they belive in .... Rather than GOOD OR BAD HUMANS....Thats the verse I shud have expected froma verse that addresses all of mankind... Sorry Dude-the problem is u are finding the truth a little too difficult to absorb! God judges MAN-not the religion that he/she pratices!

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trustedsourceofinfo RE:Pars-here we go!! 2/23/2006 2:23:03 AM

""In 15.35 it says that it is wrong to believe in false Gods as there is only one God. By the way I again repeat that Allah means the God and that is the same God Christians, Jews and possible other "one god" religions believed in."" --->No..wrong again... It says there is only one God and people need to SHUN FALSE GODS...have u noticed the emphasis on FALSE GODS again and again..Also Allah distinguishing the believers in Quran(Allah) and the rest. I do not understand how are u r inferring what u seem to be.... Look at 16:36....Allah has sent a messenger in every nation-Obviously prophet is NOW talking abt himself since he's the proclaimed messenger....Also ,clearly shunning the Shaitan/False Gods.... Who are these false Gods that Prophet keeps referring to? WE hindus worship idols....So we need to shuin the false Gods...We dont believe in Allah.....So...our Gods are the Shaitans... I mean-what the hell is he talking abt...... If there is a MESSENGER in every nation why isnt there any more talk abt THOSE MESSENGERS....how come its only Mohammad... According to Koran there is only one God and that is Allah..The rest are FALSE GODS...... Its just pure BS......

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trustedsourceofinfo RE:This unfortunately inspires terror.... (I read ths nonsense in the Koran) 2/23/2006 2:30:37 AM

Surah 22 is surely AL Hajj.... Now here's my SIMPLE CHALLENGE TO YOU... FROM SURAH 22 PLEASE SHOW ME A SINGLE VERSE ON HOW TO PERFORM HAJJ.... This is a real litmus test dude.... Also, Tell me what do these verses from surah 22 have anything to do with Piligrimage since u were out to prove Surah 22 was piligrimage specific.. 022.020 YUSUFALI: With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. PICKTHAL: Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; SHAKIR: With it shall be melted what is in their bellies and (their) skins as well. 022.021 YUSUFALI: In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. PICKTHAL: And for them are hooked rods of iron. SHAKIR: And for them are whips of iron. 022.022 YUSUFALI: Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), "Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!" PICKTHAL: Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning. SHAKIR: Whenever they will desire to go forth from it, from grief, they shall be turned back into it, and taste the chastisement of burning. NOW BACK TO MY ORIGINAL VERSE.... THOSE WHO FLEE THEIR HOMES....THOSE WHO LEAVE THEIR HOMES..... SINCE WHEN DID PEOPLE START FLEEING THEIR HOMES TO GO FOR PILGRIMAGES.... I DONT KNOW IN WHAT STATE OF DEMENTIA U INFERRED THAT... ANYWAYS WITH VERSE 20/21/22 U HAVE TO SHOW THE READERS ITS CONNECTION TO HAJJ ANY DONT FORGET MY CHALLENGE-SHOW ME A VERSE FROM 22 THAT SHOWS HOW TO PERFOEM HAJJ...

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Pars RE:Here's the clincher... 2/23/2006 7:02:05 AM

Those who believe (in the God). According to the 3 books the God wants people only believe in him. Not other things. I judge man as he is. As I am mortal I am not aware how the God judge people. I can only say what I read. And I said what I have read. You may have a different interpreation than I have which is only natural.

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Pars RE:Pars-here we go!! 2/23/2006 7:08:42 AM

I think by false gods the Quran refers to pagan gods such as Dionysus, Mithras, Kybele. In the 7th century there were still believers to these gods. By the way Shaitan (the Devil) is singular. He is the Lucifer the fallen Angel of the Bible. In the 7th century there were Devil worshippers also.

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Pars RE:This unfortunately inspires terror.... (I read ths nonsense in the Koran) 2/23/2006 7:18:29 AM

The name of this Surah is the Pilgrimage. It is not about how to perform pilgrimage. It is about pilgrimage. Pilgrimage is a voyage in which you do not hurt any living thing. You wear only simple clothes, you do not even shave during it in case you might hurt yourself. The whole voyage is about pacifism and finding love in you to all creations of god. During pilrimage, you must only think about the God and his greatness. This is in fact what this Surah is all about. Verses 20-22 are just describing hell. You can find more livelier describtions of hell in other parts of the Quran and the Bible.

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trustedsourceofinfo RE:This unfortunately inspires terror.... (I read ths nonsense in the Koran) 2/24/2006 12:48:05 AM

I am gonna take one hing at a time...Because this is getting a little out of hand with your replies in a tangent... "The name of this Surah is the Pilgrimage. It is not about how to perform pilgrimage. It is about pilgrimage." -->OK...SO this surah is called Al Hajj...It is abt Hajj but will NOT tell u how to perform Hajj....Seems incomplete..DOESNT IT???? To be honest,seems pretty ridiculous to me... You have an entire SURAH abt Hajj and the most important aspect is SKIPPED.... How on freaking EARTH are verses 20-22 related to Hajj? How is "describing" HELL anything TO DO WITH AL HAJJ(PILGRIMAGE)... I want you to show me the connection between Surah's 20-22 to Al Hajj and also think of some logical explanation why the most important aspect of Hajj has been skipped in an entire SUrah... Have te courage to admit the anomalies and the irrational logic in this Surah... I'll go back to the original Surah's one at a time..We'll agree on something before we move on... And to better prepare you since u need all the help u can-I suggest you look up the meaning of the word SLAIN!

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olive greens Tsk, tsk TSI... didnt even challenge the Turkish rubbish about Caliphs? 2/24/2006 2:15:16 PM

I mean, wasnt the REAL last Caliph blinded and exiled to Rangoon in 1858? And his sons blown kingdom-come from cannons? I would like to think even if India got all the Central Asian $#!ts dumped on it, the $#!ts were the best, the brightest and the most royal among all the $#!ts (as they come ;-)!!!

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Pars RE:Tsk, tsk TSI... didnt even challenge the Turkish rubbish about Caliphs? 2/24/2006 6:35:39 PM

Oh man, please grap a history book. There were many man in the history of the world who called themselves as Caliph. But they only accepted as Caliph by their own close area, by their own followers. If you are talking about the Caliphate. After the first 4 elected Caliphate, it passed to Umayyad dynasty, then from them to Abbasid dynasty. In the 1500's the last Abbasid Caliphate, passed the caliphate to Ottoman dynasty by his own will. And all of the Sunni part of Islam (the majority) accepted them as Caliph from Morocco to Indonesia. Of course Shias or Wahabis never accepted them as Caliphs. After Turkish Independence war; new Turkish republican parliament first abolished Sultanate at 1923, then Caliphate at 1924. After that time, Arabs tried to select a new Caliph but never could decide who did have the better claim. That is for good anyway. The world do not need new religious leaders.

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Pars RE:The Pilgrimage 2/24/2006 6:38:39 PM

You are asking the question to the wrong person. I am not a scholar of the subject. But the name of the Surah is the Pilgrimage, and every scholar I know accepte the fact every verse in that Surah is related to the Pilgrimage.

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trustedsourceofinfo RE:The Pilgrimage 2/25/2006 1:09:30 AM

""You are asking the question to the wrong person. I am not a scholar of the subject."" -->I was waiting for this to happen. Why do you think every Pakistani has fled from this forum.WE Indians use the Koran to beat them in their own Islamic game.. Sorry Pars-you flipped sooner than I expected. You claimed that Koran was written for the masses..for every living being! Dude-as a Muslim you've put your hands up!Those translated verses can be understood by one and all...You cant claim Koran is written for the people if and only if Scholars can interpret... Nevertheless-in the entire Surah there are about 8-0 verses that have "some" mention of Al Hajj... But...the entire SUrah is full of the same BS... Please admit it that "describing helll" HAS NUTHING to do with a 'holy' pilgrimage....actually there's nuthin holy to talk abt in this Surah.... And of course the most ridiculous thing is that there is NO mention abt performing HAjj in the SURAH called Al Hajj....SWeet,isnt it..... Anyways-hopefully if u open up your mind a little more I'll show u more and more BS from this terror guide called Koran.... One Surah after Another.... Having fun...arent we....

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trustedsourceofinfo RE:How are women treated in Islam 2/25/2006 2:52:48 AM

I remember sometime back Kane and Pars comin up with man=woman according to Islam... is this something that your professor in school brianwashes you into believing cos thats definitely not the story of your homes...Thats definitely not the case for any family in Islam... But I'll be more than happy to accept that I'm wrong of either of u can show me some verses from the Koran talking abt equlaity... If you'll have trouble reading the translated versions please just provide the Surah and the verse... But please show me some verse in defence of these statements made by both of you.....

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trustedsourceofinfo MAn=woman 2/25/2006 2:59:26 AM

Pars...found your post... link let me quote... 3. In Quran, woman = man. In Arabian culture they are not. Many confuse these facts. I mean you are not the only one. ===>Please show me the verses in Quran!

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trustedsourceofinfo Vintage Quran....Beat up the women 2/25/2006 3:09:35 AM

I found this from your Koran... Pars,Kane-any Muslim on this forum...would you like to comment... 004.034 YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great. SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

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Pars RE:Vintage Quran....Beat up the women 2/25/2006 5:12:13 AM

Yes, I do not like that part either. In Turkish culture, the one who raise his hand to a woman is a lowliest creature, a coward.

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