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American Kafir RE:Celebrim, Densoflex, Panther. 3/16/2004 7:49:15 AM

>>Only the US will be able to continue the War on Terror, and only if Bush is reelected.<< You're overlooking option three. If the US Government can not guarantee the safety of the American people, they sure as hell can't guarantee the safety of every Muslim in America. This fight can get much more ugly.

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Elbandeedo RE:Celebrim, Densoflex, Panther. 3/16/2004 8:12:51 AM

That just doesn't bear thinking about AK. imagine your city looking like Sarajevo? :::shudder::: no thanks.

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densoflex RE: On finding who stands to profit. 3/16/2004 8:43:08 AM

Roman, I had some good time reading the Front Page Mag site. Sadly I couln't open all of its articles and links but it looked to me that Meyssan was at the right place at this mental hospital site.

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American Kafir RE:Celebrim, Densoflex, Panther. 3/16/2004 8:49:08 AM

>>That just doesn't bear thinking about AK. imagine your city looking like Sarajevo? :::shudder::: no thanks<< It's admittedly a dark thought, but I don't think I'm alone in saying that the US government will give up on defending my country from terrorism LONG before I will. Does that mean I'm anxious to pop a round into every Muslim big enough to die? No, I'm not that extreme. A civil war isn't highlighted in my day planner. I'm simply saying that we may lose the option of hoping it never has to be that way, and I'm not about to kid myself into believing terrorists have a legitimate grievance to address with anything less than superior firepower.

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Elbandeedo RE:Celebrim, Densoflex, Panther. 3/16/2004 9:34:29 AM

Agreed, on all points. And please don't think I was suggesting you WERE about to "go off" poppin' terrorist could-be's. not my thought at all. simply stating, it's a terrible thought. I've got friends (acquaintances really!) who are survival nuts, (no really, I mean NUTs!) who probably RELISH the thought of total anarchy. I remember the couple in Bosnia trying to escape Sarajevo. they were murdered by a sniper. neither one was in uniform, one was muslim, one was Serb. I know you can't tell ones politcal leaning from the scope of a sniper rifle. That sort of thing is what I'm talking about - where a civl war happens, madness is inherent. E.

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American Kafir (no subject) 3/16/2004 10:52:41 AM

Well, I'm something of a survival "nut" myself. When I was at the tender age of 5, my grandfather taught me the principles of liberty. First he handed me a copy of the US Constitution / Bill of Rights and said "this lists your inalienable rights." Then he presented me with the rifle I would learn to shoot with, saying "this keeps your inalienable rights." Then came the other lessons - "never aim a gun at anything or anyone you do not fully intend to put a hole in" (I once got my ass whooped for aiming a cap pistol at a relative) and "don't miss, ammo costs money." Childhood wasn't Special Forces training, but I realize now more than at any point in my life that I was being prepared to meet the worst of all possibilities - *just in case* t.s.h.t.f. It's an American heritage I will pass on to the next generation. We didn't come to this land to die.

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Elbandeedo RE:American Heritage and pre-adolescent training - even further OT 3/16/2004 11:09:56 AM

I absolutley agree. While perhaps not as dinstinctly vivid as your training - mine was a little more laid back. much more emphasis on religion. I'll drop you an email off-list about some reading i've been doing which would just be WAY too far off-topic for this list! Anywho - I learned to shoot at an early age, learned safety. had an uncle teach me about knives - "why throw away a perfectly good weapon". When I say "nuts" I"m talking WAY over the top. course, in light of "worst case scenarios" I guess most of the stuff really isn't "way over the top". consider thousands of rounds of ammo, lots of fresh water stored, plenty of educational material on medicine, herbal stuff, MRE-type foods etc., generators, extra fuel for them and the vehicles (at least one of which is OLD and doesn't have any "chips" in the engine!). that sort of thing. seems over the top at first glance. on second thought, not so far fetched. just truly prepared to be self-sufficient. E.

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densoflex RE:American Heritage and pre-adolescent training - even further OT 3/16/2004 11:19:45 AM

Elbandeedo and Am Kafir, please go elsewhere to discuss your Survival stuff. This site is dedicated to Terrorism. Unless you think there might be a link between the two of them? What a strange idea my dear...

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Elbandeedo RE:densoflex 3/16/2004 11:32:54 AM

My personal appologies for having intruded on your personal forum. I'm sure AK and I (as stated in a previous post) will take our discussion elsewhere... However: this does bear SOME small relation to Terrorism, though you may not have read deeply enough to notice. We were discussing the possibility of civil war brought on by terrorist activities of islamofacsists in our own country, in which case, according to the Constitutional right of Americans to keep and bear arms, as a militia, then our "survivalist" discussion is actually relevant. This would in fact fall under the "what do we do if..." category of terrorism response. E.

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Panther RE:Celebrim, Densoflex, Panther. 3/16/2004 2:59:03 PM

O.K. - while i hope & think it wouldn't boil down to a civil war. I feel even the dems wouldn't risk the bloodshed upon their own country men. Even the far left isn't that crazy. (I hope!) I still have faith in america & the reasons for and about her creation. I do feel on the otherhand, that with the recent terrorist bombings in madrid, it has increased the vulnerability of the western democracies. No matter the reasons on why the PP was voted out of power, the terrorists as quoted on this discussion thread have taken from this example of democracy at work & twisted it to fit their logic. It might be possible that they're going to be hitting harder than ever, and further than ever before! It was a tragic catastrophe that was visted upon the spainish people. At best, all i can offer to them are my sincere affections i feel for them. While i loathe their socialist party, just the same as they despise Dubya and us conservatives here in america. I still respect the spanish citizens as if nothing had happened at all on 3-11. But if the same thing were to happen to us here in america, my vote would still be the same. The terrorists made me their enemy because i don't believe as they do. They made me their enemy over ten years ago. They reaffirm their hatred for me by attacking civilization and the innocents that dwell within. They made the twin towers their target against my country, my countrymen, & myself. With the twin towers destruction, my eyes were opened to the world's hatred not just for my government, but for me as well; because i am an american citizen. They hate President Bush because he fits the role of the ugly, stupid American to a T in their eyes! People can dislike my government, or the party that currently holds power. I don't care, nor will i waste my time in trying to make them see my way. No Government is without it's mistakes. But by GOD - I'd be a moronic jackass if i threw my convictions out the window & vote kerry - just so the bombings might stop & the world will love us again! Right now, as i see it, the majority of the world hate us unconditionally. With Mr Kerry as president they will start liking us, but only on conditional terms! I have a new reason on why i'm going to vote Bush this november! If he doesn't care about what others think of him, & does what he thinks is best for america's security. Then, he is doing the job exactly as it is described in the constitution. He's protecting us americans when nobody else cares! Mr Kerry has not proved to me yet, his ability to stand alone in the world's view & protect us from the worst type of humanity yet. No doubt Mr. Kerry will try, but, bush has succeeded in provin' his mettle on the world stage!

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