Islam = Evil?

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Muslim RE:Islam = Evil? 9/3/2002 5:41:35 PM

Don't mind at all.

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The Myrmidon to: Muslim RE:Islam = Evil? 9/3/2002 6:29:08 PM

Excellent. Back to the topic at hand. You are saying that the Muslim Nations do not represent the rule of Islam. Then why do they exist? Iran is ruled by the Ayatollah, a holy leader, or so he claims. The Taliban, formerly of Afghanistan, claim to follow the teachings of Muhammad. Iraq, Libya, Syria. They all "follow" the Koran, yet they still sponsor terrorism. How can they have all fallen so far from the true path? Unless theirs is the true path of Islam. It's difficult to believe that they are all wrong in their beliefs compared to your philosophies. How are the Muslim clerics misinterpreting the Koran? I reiterate (with a small correction) the author(s) of the Koran obviously overestimated human intelligence. If it could fool most of the Muslim world into believing that the first solution to most problems is Jihad, then I probably shouldn't read anymore. I consider my own intelligence to be above average, as, obviously, is yours, and it's a confusing read, even to me. Or, these so-called holy leaders understand perfectly, and only teach certain things to the people in order to retain power? They would teach just enough to keep the people hating someone else. Giving the people a scapegoat, much like Hitler did with the Jews during World War II? He taught his people that the Jews were evil in order to retain power. Which theory is closer to being correct?

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Hasib Ghorgi RE:Islam = Evil? 9/3/2002 6:42:36 PM

ISLAM IS FOR PEACE UNLIKE CHRISTIANS AND YOUR FALSE JESUS WHO YOU THINK IS FROM GOD ISLAM IS FOR PEOPLE AND NOT SNOBBY YANKS

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The Myrmidon to: Hasib RE:Islam = Evil? 9/3/2002 6:51:58 PM

This is an A B conversation. C your way out of it.

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Muslim RE:Islam = Evil? 9/3/2002 11:19:10 PM

"You are saying that the Muslim Nations do not represent the rule of Islam. Then why do they exist? Iran is ruled by the Ayatollah, a holy leader, or so he claims. The Taliban, formerly of Afghanistan, claim to follow the teachings of Muhammad. Iraq, Libya, Syria. They all "follow" the Koran, yet they still sponsor terrorism. How can they have all fallen so far from the true path? Unless theirs is the true path of Islam. It's difficult to believe that they are all wrong in their beliefs compared to your philosophies. How are the Muslim clerics misinterpreting the Koran?" I'm not a mindreader, so I can't tell why are they misinterperting Islam. All I can say is that they are, maybe some of those leader aren't as educated about Islam as people think, maybe they have some hidden agenda which leads them to deliberately misinterpret the Quran, or maybe they are just doing what they are told; those are the only three possibilities that I say as to why they are not ruling by Islam completely, the possibility that they ARE ruling by Islam, correctly, is really out of the question because if you compare their rule to the rule of the prophet, you would see the huge differences. To sum it all up, there are only three reasons why someone does something wrong 1)They don't know it's wrong, 2)They know it's wrong, but do it anyway, 3)They are forced to do it, or 4)They are just doing what they think is right, which still doesn't change the fact that they are wrong. Keep in mind one thing, what's popular isn't always right, and what's right isn't always popular. So just because you see all these leaders claiming to be ruling by Islam, it doesn't mean that they do, and just because the vast majority of muslims follow them, it doesn't mean they are right either. The only way a leader can represent Islam and Muslims is by being given power the Islamic way, I don't like to use the word Voting because it has some western conotations, the Arabic word Bay'aa, which in essence means the same thing; bay'aa is how we "vote" on a leader. So, once someone is given the bay'aa by the people, than he can claim to represent Islam, none of the current leader were given bay'aa. Even the Prophet himself had to be given Bay'aa before ruling in Madinah. "I reiterate (with a small correction) the author(s) of the Koran obviously overestimated human intelligence. If it could fool most of the Muslim world into believing that the first solution to most problems is Jihad, then I probably shouldn't read anymore. I consider my own intelligence to be above average, as, obviously, is yours, and it's a confusing read, even to me. " What's the confusing part, actually understanding it, or reconciling it with the situation of muslims today? Let me ease things up for you, you're not the only one. The Quran was sent down in Arabic, it's an Arabic book, and will always be in Arabic, that's simple to understand; the problem is that Arabic has changed since the Quran was revealed, Arabs today don't speak the same Arabic spoken 1400 years ago. In the past people spoke the same Arabic the Quran was written in, so they understood it very easily. Today, there are some words that even I don't know the meaning for, so I must go back to the old books about Quran and see how the scholars of the past understood a certain verse or word. It's not enough to simply know how to read it, you also must understand it. It is the duty of every muslim to understand the Quran, and we must do everything we need to understand it. One of the bast scholars muslims ever had, Al-Shafi'i, says it is mandatory for every muslim to understand Arabic; because, from his argument, Arabic is a must to understand the Quran. I agree with that (it doesn't mean that everyone is forced to learn arabic, it just means that any musim who agree with him, must take it upon themselves to learn Arabic). Islam isn't confusing, it's demanding. You need to be sincere and dedicate the amount of time it will take to understand Islam. But not everyone has to be equally as knowledgable about Islam, obviously most people won't reach a level where they can make their own Ijtihad (the process of extracting rules from the text), but they will be able to follow the research someone else has made. So that is the bright side, if you don't want to do the research, or you can't, then you can follow the research of someone else. "Or, these so-called holy leaders understand perfectly, and only teach certain things to the people in order to retain power? They would teach just enough to keep the people hating someone else. Giving the people a scapegoat, much like Hitler did with the Jews during World War II? He taught his people that the Jews were evil in order to retain power. Which theory is closer to being correct?" It is the most likely reason as to why those leaders misinterpret the Quran and Islam the way they do. Compare these leaders to the ones we had in the past; our past leaders cared about their pe

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The Myrmidon to: Muslim RE:Islam = Evil? Maybe not. We'll see. 9/3/2002 11:50:58 PM

You, sir, have given me much to think about. I apologize to you and the other Muslims I have offended (except Hasib and the Iraqi Nasty Girls). I will continue my own research on Islam, but I'll do it my own way, instead of relying on the "facts" produced by others. I promise you, if you will accept my word, that I will do my best to be completely impartial in my research. I have actually enjoyed our conversation on this topic. It was both enlightening and challenging. It helped reaffirm to me that not all Muslims are American hating extremists(just the majority). Indeed, I only wish that more of them were like you. I hope you'll challenge me again, soon. I don't know yet when I'll leave, but until then, I'll be around. Respectfully, Myrmidon

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Muslim RE:Islam = Evil? Maybe not. We'll see. 9/4/2002 12:26:39 AM

I'm glad that you are being open minded about this, a view not commonly shared amongst most Americans. I hope that you will understand one thing while doing your research, and that is that the Quran, just like any book, can and has been misused to justify wrong beliefs and actions. So be aware not to take those opinions. I suggest you find some translations of works by Imam Al-shafi'i, a great scholar who existed in about 800 AD, I'm not sure exactly when. The translation of Ibn-Kathir's tafsir of the Quran (a tafsir is like an explanation of what the verses say). Books by Abu-Hanifah, Ibn Hanbal. As for History, the History of Al-Tabari is a great objective source, in it he lists all the stories and reports about historical events, even the ones that are wrong. These books and authors will give you a great understanding of Islam and how many people believe in it. They mostly don't deal with one question though, they probably won't have answers to what muslims should at a time where no unity exists, that is because they didn't think that time would come. So for any info about that, it would need some more recent authors, which we have shortage of since most recent scholars are as deviated as their leaders. I hope these names and books will help you in your research, if you ever need anything cleared up, I will be more than happy to help you. Until then, I'll be around as well. Respectfully, Muslim.

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The Myrmidon to: Muslim Thanks 9/4/2002 12:45:15 AM

I'll write them down. Thank you. It seems that Outcast is back, over on the Israel board. Yeah, I insulted him again. When I'm attacked, I strike back. I almost regret insulting him, now, as I see he's not worth it. Anyway, I hope you and I never become enemies. I look forward to our next discussion.

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Hasib Ghorgi RE:Islam = Evil? Maybe not. We'll see. 9/4/2002 1:06:25 AM

arabs will unite under Islam and crush america, israel and christians you myramid are a racist pig and a facist

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muslim to hasib RE:Islam = Evil? Maybe not. We'll see. 9/4/2002 1:10:12 AM

Please, I'm asking you as nicely as I can. Stop attacking them, address their ideas. That's what the prophet would do. Remeber the prophet's jewish neighbor, the one who put trash by his door every day? did the prophet ever insult her? no. Instead, he visited her when she was sick. Just because you disagree with someone, it doesn't mean you have to hate them. Muslims don't hate anyone, except for Arafat and saddam maybe, muslims leave it up to Allah to sort the good from the bad, all we do is convey the message of Islam, the rest is up to them.

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