Koran reading question

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sofa RE:Koran reading question _3 5/14/2006 7:53:17 PM

Later sections of Koran encourage barbarism and killing. These later verses have greatest importance in Hadiths, and are publicly professed to be an important part of the Islamic faith. Question: When people study the verses and the Hadiths and continue to be Muslims, then aren't they accepting and supporting barbarism? Aren't they encouraging and participating in actions designed to violently destroy my family and way of life?

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Pars RE:Koran reading question _3 5/15/2006 8:23:09 AM

I know no sections which encourages barbartism and killing. Can you be more specific? Which sections you are talking about?

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sofa RE:Koran reading question 7/4/2006 9:54:55 AM

Pars - Have you read the Koran, or do you just recite phrases in a language you don't understand? As a terror manual, the Koran instructs how to butcher enemies to the best effect. It seems to be about killing and surpressing others, while being barbaric to your neighbors and your own family. Can someone help me find any portions of the Koran which set out any humanism or respect for others (non-muslim)? What does the Koran offer me, a non-muslim? Subjugation, slavery, butchery. --Perhaps I should do onto Islam as Islam would do onto me.

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kane RE:Koran reading question 7/9/2006 9:06:28 AM

I don't know as much as Pars do but from the community i live in(Turkey which is mostly Muslim),i can say that no one beheads people or hate people from other religions BUT they are scared from other religions because of USA. No one tried to kill me when i said i'm an ateist and no one will And many Turks judge if there is god or not and they're not exterimist. And I researched Christiantiy a bit and i realized that it is very similar to Islam(as our teachers told us).But if you look carefully at other ýslamic communities you can see that Islamic people are different because they're exterimist.Same things are in both religion but Islamic people made it nore extreme.This extremism is forbidden in Turkey.

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sofa RE:Koran reading question 7/11/2006 11:57:43 PM

How do muslims in turkey reconcile the directives in the koran with living within a secular society? Islam calls for a specific form of government and law. Islam is a jihad against secularism. But how do folks reconcile those directives in the koran with living within a secular society, with secular laws, and with a representative form of government? It seems that the extremism comes in waves. It also seems that every crisis needs to be met firmly, to keep the extremism in check.

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kane RE:Koran reading question 7/26/2006 8:07:43 AM

The most important reason is the structure of Turkish society.Turks were living in central asia(still).They were believing in a religion called "tengrism".You can research about this religion.They were believing in one god,horses were sacred for them,and they were believing in natural things. Because of the problems in Asia Turks began to move west.In the west there was Islamic Empire and Byzantine.Turks met Arabians and fought aganist them.Some Turks felt that Islam would make them stronger."Tengrism" was not so different from one god religions.This made the adaptation faster. Some other didn't accept but they had to,Arabs forced them to do it.Turkish islam was always different from Arabian islam,thats why they do not like us. Evenm the Seljuks were kind of secular.In those days Turks were the defenders of Islam because of their warrior tradition.Arabs used Turks as soldiers and generals.This fastened the adaptation of Islam. Another reason is that Anatolia was full of different cultures and different religions.There was a part of Islam called "Bektashi".Many Turks were following this and this cult of Islam was not extreme as Sunni Islam. Ottomans didn't kill people for religion(there were exceptions),they accepted people from every religion.Leader of the Orthodox Church is in Turkey since Fatih Sultan Mehmet conquered Istanbul in 1453.They accpeted people from every religion and didn't convert them.(Fatih was a great leader.Ottomans always moved to west while under his command.He kenw many languages and he was good at history.He learned a lot from his teacher and he became a great leader.He conquered Istanbul when he was 20) If they tried to convert them Balkans(greeks,bulgarians,serbians...) would be Muslim now.Now there are only Bosnians that are Muslim in Balkans.They were mostly Turks sent from Anatolia to make a Turkish pop in Balkans. As a result i can say that it's because of the culture of Turks.We are much more different than Arabs.Turks were not extreme religios people but they were nationalists.But things are changing now because of Israel and USA.People are more eager to be religious. Ottomans were never extremist as other Islamic nations in history.Empire was always the most important thing for the Sultan.None of the Turkish Sultans went to Haj because of this. There were also mullahs that were killed because of their action in Ottomans. Still Ottomans were religious and this brought end of the Ottomans.Mullahs didn't let technology enter to the empire for a long time. Before Ottomans were leading the technology,economy and military power all over the known world. After 17th century west began to get stornger and Ottomans began to get backwards. Atatürk was a genious ,he was well educated and was the true patriot.He worked a lot to beat emperialists in Turkish indepence war. After that he sacked sultan,and caliph and brough secularism.Gave women rights before many other European countries.Made some religious things forbidden. Now there is a defender of secularism,and it is TSK(Turkish armed forces)Most of the well educated people in Turkey are aganist extremism. so tihs is the answer -Turkish tradition -Different Anatolian cults -Atatürk -Turkish army

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kane RE:+ 7/26/2006 8:11:27 AM

Most of the epople loves Atatürk and tries to stay in his path.Research Kemalism.You can find information easily. In school people grow with nationalist feelings which beats religious one.And everyone is free to choose his her religion in here.I was a Muslim,they told me good things about it.Didn't tell me to kill kafirs and stuff.Education matters a lot. After doing more researches i decided to be atheist but i still have some feelings to god.Not sure if it exists or not.And no one in Turkey is gonna kill me for that.

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Pars RE:Sofa 7/26/2006 4:08:28 PM

I understand that you do not like my answer to your questions. I am sorry to say that your knowledge on Islam is quite mistaken. Islam do not force anyone to living any sort of government. It does not force non-believers to a certain difficulties. It simply says submit to the God. Like the Bible or older books the Quran is simply a message to acknowledge and obey the God. And messages are all quite similar.

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sofa RE:Koran reading question _2 7/26/2006 10:00:13 PM

"According to Islam all Christians and Jews are also believers of Allah (the God)." - Pars (Go ahead and finish the sentence) .... BUT ...

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sofa RE:Koran reading question _2 7/26/2006 10:11:30 PM

"Under what condictions is beheading ok?" Treason. Treason against the state especially during war time. This is generally what is meant by the word "fitna". -Pars So resisting Islam is punishable by death. - That is clear.- And "8.39. And fight them on until there is no more Fitna" So don't stop until the unbelievers are all dead or conquered. -Also clear- Very nice Religion of Peace. Would you say muslims are ignoring this directive in the Koran, or trying to follow it vigorously; with funding, support, and by educating their young to be meatbombers - To surrender themselves to god.

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