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Subject: The Islamic Foundation of the Renaissance
K2    4/15/2005 1:14:49 PM
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American Kafir    RE:The Islamic Foundation of the Renaissance   4/15/2005 2:54:23 PM
Yes, it was nice of the Muslim empires to preserve Greek knowledge after plundering and burning the libraries of Western Civilization at the start of our "Dark Ages." Not that the two have anything to do with the other. That wouldn't be politically correct to point out.
 
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Pars    The so called dark ages.   7/11/2005 10:28:05 PM
No Muslim army had ever invaded Italy, France, Germany or England. So how did they ever burned libraries of Western civilisation. AK, you are flying again. The so called Dark Ages were not so dark either. Western countries did not go backward in technology. On the contrary they continued to advance especially in the fields of armoury and agriculture West Europe had the best technology in the world. On the other technologies the Byzantine and Middle-East improved faster until the arrival of Mongols.
 
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swhitebull    RE:The so called dark ages.   7/11/2005 11:44:52 PM
..No Muslim army had ever invaded Italy, France, Germany or England. So how did they ever burned libraries of Western civilisation.... Except for the massive Moorish raid that culminated in 732 at the battle Of Tours in France? Or the Arab conquest of Sicily and southern Italy? That required the dukes of Benevento and Spoleto et al to hire Frankish mercanaries in the 1000s to repulse the endemic raids and to push the Arabs out of Taranto? Or the Norman reconquest of Sicily that led to the battle of Cerami in the 1100s, IIRC? Who were they reconquering from, then, the Spanish Inquisition? Sicily lay under the Arabs for a good 3-400 years before the Reconquest. Where did those invaders get their troops? swhitebull - history is a good thing to know. Especially from the arabs own sources.
 
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Pars    RE:The so called dark ages.   7/13/2005 1:10:52 AM
Still no Muslim army had ever invaded Italy, France, Germany or England. 732 was just a campaign that was succesfully repulsed Arabs. And I did not count Scily in my list. And those Arabs never got Northern than Taranto. That is not invading Italy. Besides the Arabs that invaded Scily were one of the most enlightened group in the history. When Normans libreated Scily from the Arabs they started the Scilian Renaissance from the knowledgethey have learned from those Arabs. History is really good thing to know if you do not try to twist it to support your political ideas. As history is something to be aproached by no prejudgements.
 
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bsl    RE:The Islamic Foundation of the Renaissance   7/30/2005 10:38:00 PM
Not an especially strong argument. One might argue, for instance, that the movement of knowledge actually began with the Crusades, otoh. And, more importantly, otoh, it was actually the Mongol conquests which fostered the Rennaisance, by imposing a peace across all of Asia so that, for pretty nearly the first time in history, trade, especially by land, was fairly easy from Europe, through the ME and all the way to China.
 
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timon_phocas    RE:The so called dark ages.   7/31/2005 12:00:03 PM
>>No Muslim army had ever invaded Italy, France, Germany or England. So how did they ever burned libraries of Western civilisation.<< Pars, That statement is about one-fourth correct. France - The Battle of Tours was fought between and Islamic army under Abd-er Rahman and a Frankish army under Charles Martel. It was fought in France, after all. And unless Abd-er Rahman was on a bus tour of French wine country, then he must have been was invading France. The army of Charle Martel pressed the Muslim invaders until they couldn't retreat without abandoning their plunder, so they fought the battle. Italy - Islamic armies had captured and held Sicily in 830 CE. BY 1000 CE they also held a patchwork of possessions on the southern Italian penninsula and were gradually consolidating their hold on southern Italy. They were dispossessed of these by the Norman mercenary Robert Guicard (and his descendants) at about the time of the Battle of Hastings. Germany - The Ottomons besieged Vienna in the 16th and 17th centuries. Vienna was the heart of medieval Germany, and the capital of the Holy Roman Empire, which was German in all but name.
 
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timon_phocas    RE:The so called dark ages.   7/31/2005 1:12:35 PM
>>732 was just a campaign that was succesfully repulsed Arabs.<< does this mean that if Islamic armies had been defeated at Yarmuk it would not have been an invasion of the Eastern Roman Empire?
 
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timon_phocas    RE:The Islamic Foundation of the Renaissance   7/31/2005 1:52:07 PM
>>otoh, it was actually the Mongol conquests which fostered the Rennaisance, by imposing a peace across all of Asia so that, for pretty nearly the first time in history, trade, especially by land, was fairly easy from Europe, through the ME and all the way to China.<< bsl, very interesting, thanks for the insight
 
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Green Dragon    RE:The so called dark ages.   9/21/2005 8:42:38 AM
Exactly so, It would have otherwise been a border incursion by force. Nothing to get upset about. Unless you were receiving..........
 
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