Which country is the greatest enemy of Fundementalist Islam?

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chemist RE:Chemist?AK and Ilpars - Chemist 5/24/2004 8:56:40 AM

You're misunderstanding Ilpars. This isn't bravado or a lack of faith in our military. The US tore down the 2nd or 3rd most powerful nation in the ME, without really trying. We've gone out of our way to avoid civillian casualties in Iraq. That's rather proof of how capable the US is of prosecuting a war against a ME(barring Turkey) nation. We could have pursued it much like we did in previous wars(Korea, Vietnam) and blown the place and everyone in it, without using nukes, to itsy-bitsy pieces. But we don't. To do so in many minds would be an attrocity. But, there is a point that we Americans can be pushed to where we won't care about it being an attrocity. We just want to be left alone. The main point is this: Moslems are complaining that we don't fight in a way is respectable to Islam, and saying that we Americans need to fear the 'Arab Street.' THat's fine, but as Sarge says, they need to worry aboutthe American street too(exemplified by AK). If our 'Street' get's an ear in high places you can expect B-52's dropping dumb 500lb bombs in massive airstrikes instead of precision munitions. Honestly, is there a nation that on the Arabian Pen. that could resist such a thing? We haven't done it yet because some believe it to be a horrible, horrible thing. But, they will lose power if the troublemakers don't quit it. WE don't really want go the 'bomb you back to the stoneage' route. But, if it comes to choosing between Americans or Middle Easterners, well, to protect our own we may just might pound every rock into sand(not glass). We may not be the first country to deal with terrorism. So what. As we see it everyone else's approach has failed. Nobody has tried ours yet, not really. We will stop terrorists from attacking us. Consequences be damned. They will stop attacking us because if they don't we'll blow up everything that they ever cared about(their mothers, their homes, their mosques, their children, their holy cities, their pets, their wives, everything). That's largely my point ilpars. DO the fundementalist Moslems understand what they are playing with? As to your influence: Ideas always start small and with a few or even one man. Marx was a nobody living on the charity of friends for the most part. He's now one of the most influential people of all time. Things don't occur in a vacum ilpars. We're pushing for a snowball effect here. It starts with one act, as things always do. Be the fulcrum for peace man.

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ilpars RE:Chemist?AK and Ilpars - Chemist 5/24/2004 9:09:30 AM

I agree that USA so far fight respectable. I do not like the idea of carpet bombing. too many civilian casulaties. And it is totaly against USA declaration of objectives. According to this declaration USA is at Iraq to liberate the country from Saddam's regime and to build a modern state in Iraq. Any atrocities on behalf of USA will damage the USA's credibility. USA must win this war for world peace. And winning it will be measured by American success of building a modern Iraq. After al this was American war aim.

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SGTObvious RE:Ilpars - SGTObvious ( minor adjustment) 5/24/2004 10:05:22 AM

"If USA nuke ME even with a single bomb... Probably not. If we freak out, its going to be all-or-nothing, and we won't stop with just one bomb, we will stop when the survivors agree to our terms, unconditionally. If this happens, you will see a change in US military planning, from "minimize civilian casualties" to "we will keep firing until our terms are met, or until there is no-one left alive to meet our terms, whichever, we don't really care." The world will see the end of the benevolent America and the rise of a cruel American Empire. " everybody (surviving) will try to obtain nuclear weapons by all costs." One of the terms of the end of the hypothetical US nuclear bombarment would be "And you will never, ever, seek nuclear weapons of your own or we just might go nuts again." The post-nuclear-attack world would see the US maintaining a "black list" of nations, not with embargos, sanctions, and speeches at the UN, but a "you will comply as ordered or be destroyed" system. "And next major war world will see, will be a nuclear one." No doubt. But that can be a good thing. That fear kept the peace between the USA and the USSR. Two heavily armed nuclear powers, both essentially rational. But the Arabs do not fear a massive nuclear attack. That's a problem, because if there is no fear, there is no deterrence. So, the way out is to cut the knot: Irrational nations may not have nukes. Ever. Irrational nations are those who don't understand the math of deterrence or mutually (or non-mutually) assured destruction. For the most part, Arabs.

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ilpars RE:Ilpars - SGTObvious ( minor adjustment) 5/24/2004 10:28:49 AM

Another wrong assumption is world will just watch a nuclear attack. Probably Russia or China will not pass such an oppurtunity to settle in ME as a protector. There is even a possiblity that all minors who fear a US nuclear attack will create a new alliance with Russia or China whoever is more willing. Politically, Nuclear weapons are not usable.

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chemist RE:Chemist?AK and Ilpars - ilpars 5/25/2004 5:04:10 AM

I think we're starting to get on the same page ilpars. Cooler heads at the moment are concerned with abstractions like 'credibility' and 'atrocity'. What I'm saying is that there may come a point, a time when the respectable tactics we are using now have been shown to not work by further terrorist action, that the US would no longer care about such abstractions. From our point of view it would be a matter of survival, an 'us or them gets the knife in the belly' situation. Nobody wants to see a return to carpet bombing. But, if that's the only way to 'reason' with these a-holes and protect ourselves? I'm sure quite a few of us would sleep like little angels in the event we did carpet bomb(nod to AK). The question I think you should be asking is whether the extremists understand this point. We don't want to mess with Turkey or destroy Islam in total. We just want these buggers to stop. World opinion, credibility, whatever. When it comes to our own lives many of us could care less what the rest of the world thinks. ilpars, this is kinda like why you're getting roughed up on the other threads too(like the archenar initiated Islam leads to theorhetical physics one. People were saying what they were to burn archenar, not bad mouth you in any way.). You're seeing things as possible assaults on Islam or Turkey. We only want peace. Not just the abscence of violence because the dogs have been shackled. We want a peace where the dogs won't attack us ever again because they'r either gone or have evolved beyond being angry dogs. We will kill to do it. It's that simple. The Islamo-facists may not realize it but that's the mentality they are dealing with over here. Do they see it that way? You live closer to the region and have a better 'feel' for how things are thought of over in that part of the world. Do they?

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ilpars RE:Chemist?AK and Ilpars - ilpars 5/25/2004 5:38:53 AM

OK. Let me enter the logics of Animal Farm. Uneducated men are not wolfs or dogs. They are sheeps looking for guidance of a shepherd. Sheeps are not evil. They are naive. Men never talks to them but evil dogs do. Dogs say that men are evil. Men are slaughtering sheeps at Palestine, Iraq, Afganistan, Checynia. If sheeps do not unite under the guidance of dogs; entire race of sheeps will be destroyed. "What must I do" ask sheep to dog. Dog answers: "if you put this bomb on, and explode it near men, men will see that his sheepslaughtering can also kill him." He adds "If you do not sacrifice yourself now, they will come again and kill your wife, father, mother, brothers, sisters and children. Men will never stop slaughtering until they pay the price." Sheeps believes in dogs. Because men do not talks to them. Only kill them. But dogs talk them, help them to rebuild their homes and teach them how can they survive from slaughtering. Even if men kills every sheep in this world, war will not stop. Dogs will just find another naive animal kind to fight their war. The problem of Men is they do not know who their enemy is. As they see sheeps attacking them, they are fighting against sheeps. They do not even bother to talk to sheeps. They just kill them. Iraq farm could be the place where Men start talking with sheeps. But no, men still talking with dogs. They still believe that in a farm filled with sheeps and a few dogs; sheeps can vote independently. No as long as you let dogs handle the sheeps, sheeps will do whatever dogs say.

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displacedjim RE:Chemist?AK and Ilpars - ilpars 5/25/2004 8:45:50 AM

Now that sounds like something most everyone posting here can agree with. And also most everyone here agrees the true solution is to shoot all the dogs. I hope we get on with doing it. Displacedjim

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American Kafir RE:Chemist?AK and Ilpars 5/25/2004 10:43:07 AM

"When I'm President, I will carve the word 'WAR' into the Cabinet Room table with my buck knife so that it will always be an option on the table." - American Kafir, Revolution Party nomination acceptance speech July 10th, 2007 "After we nuked Riyadh a few hours ago, the Saudi government had the audacity to not call us and thank us. Therefore we will nuke another city every day until we get the respect we deserve. As a courtesy of sovereignty, we will allow King Faud to choose the next Saudi city to be destroyed. If we do not like his choice, we may correct it." - President American Kafir, impromptu address to the American people during a late night Inauguration rave party, January 21st, 2008 ---- Seriously, I can make the suits in Washington understand it's okay to hate the enemy and want him deader than disco I feel I will have done my part to advance American politics into the 21st Century. Don't make me get a haircut and start wearing ties. I'll do it. I swear.

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ilpars Do you want to see End of the Days? Vote for AK. 5/25/2004 10:49:55 AM

Do you want to see End of the Days? Do you wander what Apocalypse and nuclear holocaste look like? Do you want to see how will be the 3rd World War? Then vote for AK. Hurrah...

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ilpars AK, sheeps and dogs 5/25/2004 10:57:08 AM

AK is always after sheeps. Maybe they are more easy to catch, maybe they taste better. Maybe one day he will see that sheeps are not enemy but victim. And for the dogs, I do not know why they never get killed even in films. They usually die from long age.

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