Scientific Indications in the Holy Qur'an, Part-II

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swhitebull RE:Scientific Indications in the Holy Qur'an, Part-II 5/17/2004 12:04:48 PM

..Would you like to know more about Muhammad's victims? .. AK - you sound like a clip from Starship Troopers. But yes, I would like to know more. swhitebull

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ilpars RE:Scientific Indications in the Holy Qur'an, Part-II 5/17/2004 12:12:37 PM

"Would you like to know more about Muhammad's victims?" Yes, but with your resources please.

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American Kafir RE:Insulting religions, - AK 5/17/2004 12:31:03 PM

>>1. Islam is not telling Sun orbits the Earth. No muslim scholar have said anything like this in the history. On the other hand some Christian scientists had been trialed by inquisition because they told Earth is orbiting Sun not vice versa. Please refresh your history knowledge.<< We're not talking about ancient Christians and their stupidity concerning celestial mechanics. We are talking about the verses in the Quran that Achenar quoted. The verses claim that the sun orbits in a fixed course. You must either admit that the Quran is wrong about the sun, and therefore the Quran is not an inerrant communication from an all-knowing Allah, or you must admit that you don't mind pretending to be stupid by trusting the ravings of a scientifically ignorant desert barbarian over proven scientific fact. You can't get around this. The Quran is false. Admit it and recieve praise, deny it and look foolish. >>2. I am Muslim and I know that my religion do not let me kill anyone including infidels. As you are not Muslim, please do not be insulted if I take my knowledge in front of yours.<< Ordinarily I would defer to an expert on these matters, in this case a practicing Muslim on the subject of Islam, but I'm afraid I can't do that in this case. I'm not sure I could trust whatever testimony I could gain. Here's why. Muslims are said to believe that the Quran contains commandments from Allah and the directions for living their lives according to Allah's will. Within the pages of the Quran, Muslims are in fact explicitly instructed to kill non-Muslims. I can quote the relevant verses if you'd like. But further, Muslims uphold Muhammad as a exemplar of how Muslims should conduct themselves. I can cite numerous examples of Muhammad's actions described in both the Quran and the Hadiths that do not conform to what civilized people would call civilized behavior. Just as a case in point, read this Hadith from Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369 - ----- Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." ----- Not only does Muhammad seek someone who will volunteer to murder someone who has offended him, he grants permission to that volunteer to lie in Muhammad's name to facilitate the killing. This is far from being the only case in Islamic history where Muslims are either instructed or granted permission to lie and decieve in order to facilitate the killing of someone else. Needless to say, because of this, I mistrust mostly those Muslims who claim to be peaceful. >>3. In Islam it is clearly defined that one must obey the laws of the country he is living in. You are also wrong in this prejudgement.<< I don't believe you. >>4. You are clearly doctrinated to believe that Islam is evil and all muslims are evil. You are being manipulated. Do not believe everything you have been told but do your own search and reach the facts by yourself.<< Before I researched Islam, I really had no opinion of it whatsoever. After researching Islam, I have come to the conclusion that it's nothing but an attempt to justify a genocidal social upheaval by a cult fanatical desert barbarians made into a religion. >>This article of yours is full of hatred and religious discrimination. If there is a hate law in your state in which religious discrimination is a crime, you are indeed in an act of crime. I have no intention or time to sue you but it is clear that you have no respect to your country's laws.<< I have every bit of respect for my country's laws. Conspiring to kill people, either on the basis of their disbelief in Islam or any other reason, is against the law and every mosque in America and any other place that advocates following the Quran should be shut down because of it. >>As Sun Tzu said to defeat the enemy first you must know yourself, then your enemy.<< Sun Tzu never imagined nuclear weapons. >>Your hatred makes you a fanatic may be even a facist. And you have no idea who the enemy is.<< I know exactly who my enemy is. Anyone who claims that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger is my enemy. >>One day your hatred can make you do something that you will deeply regret.<< I doubt it. Logic dictates that dead Muslims can't commit acts of Islamic terrorism. I will not regret the end of Islamic terrorism. >>As a person, it is my duty to inform you that the hatred path that you are following is false and a self-doom. I know that you will probably do not consider a single word of mine as true as I am a Muslim and therefore should be evil but I am doing my best.<< I appreciate that. But as long as you identify yourself as a Muslim, to my ears you ar

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American Kafir RE:Scientific Indications in the Holy Qur'an, Part-II 5/17/2004 12:46:00 PM

..Would you like to know more about Muhammad's victims? .. >>AK - you sound like a clip from Starship Troopers. But yes, I would like to know more.<< LOL! Well then... "click here" link

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ilpars Now we are coming to where you are indeed a fanatic - AK 5/17/2004 1:10:05 PM

In Korean war, my country went into war to help their ally US. In fact our soldiers bled and died for you. In the entire history Turkey and USA never went into a war against each other (including WW1 in which we were at opposite camps). In Turkish history there was never an anti-semite movement. Indeed Turkey was always a safe haven for Jews to escape. Turks were always were very tolerant to religions. In fact there are also many Orthodox Christian Turks living in Istanbul. I have known in my entire life as a very honest man. In fact many times called too honest. In my entire life I never wanted to kill anyone. On the contrary I prayed God to be never in a position of have to kill (such as a war). When I pray to God, I always asked forgiveness for every good men and I believe every good men will go to heaven. Besides all this facts; because I am a Muslim in your eyes I am evil and I have to be killed. More frightening than that my sister and my mother is also have to be killed. That is the same belief that made Nazis to kill thousands of innocent Jews, Gypsies, Comminists. This is why you are a fanatic and and a facist.

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American Kafir RE:Now we are coming to where you are indeed a fanatic - AK 5/17/2004 1:40:14 PM

>>In Korean war, my country went into war to help their ally US. In fact our soldiers bled and died for you. In the entire history Turkey and USA never went into a war against each other (including WW1 in which we were at opposite camps). In Turkish history there was never an anti-semite movement. Indeed Turkey was always a safe haven for Jews to escape. Turks were always were very tolerant to religions. In fact there are also many Orthodox Christian Turks living in Istanbul. I have known in my entire life as a very honest man. In fact many times called too honest. In my entire life I never wanted to kill anyone. On the contrary I prayed God to be never in a position of have to kill (such as a war). When I pray to God, I always asked forgiveness for every good men and I believe every good men will go to heaven. Besides all this facts; because I am a Muslim in your eyes I am evil and I have to be killed. More frightening than that my sister and my mother is also have to be killed. That is the same belief that made Nazis to kill thousands of innocent Jews, Gypsies, Comminists. This is why you are a fanatic and and a facist.<< That's rich. You claim to be someone who believes in the teachings of the Quran and I'm the fascist? Granted, I've never been chained up and beaten to learn the Quran by heart (see: link ) but I have read a great deal of it. Enough to know that Muslims are commanded to kill the infidels whereever they are found and that Muslims are not to take non-Muslims as friends. That you are trying to be friendly with me, a non-Muslim, is proof enough that you are trying to decieve me into lowering my guard so that you can kill me, another instruction from the Quran. I'm sorry. Until you renounce Islam, I can only assume that you're a threat.

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FJV AK in pitbull mode 5/17/2004 1:43:46 PM

That's what you get when you discuss religion with AK. AK is alway's pointing out the errors in religious beliefs (Christian as well). His style could be politer, but that wouldn't make the content more agreeable to a believer. And now you have a problem which is exactly the same problem as with the Bible: - Either you maintain that the Koran is the exact word of God/Allah and state that the sun revolves around the earth proving the Koran scientiffically wrong. - Or state that the texts in the Koran are not always to be taken literal. With the result that a passage in the Koran can have two conflicting meanings depending on how you interpret it. Which also makes it possible to use the Koran to back up any point you want depending on the interpretation and passages you choose.

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ilpars RE:Now we are coming to where you are indeed a fanatic - AK 5/17/2004 2:26:50 PM

You understand me wrongly. I definetely do not want someone so paranoid as friend. And I am not acting friendly.

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Achernar RE:AK in pitbull mode 5/17/2004 3:02:20 PM

FJV : AK misinterprets Al-Qurâ??an verses. Al-Qurâ??an never said sun round the earth. â??He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running (on a fixed course) for an appointed term. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgivingâ? [Sura- 39: Aya-5] This describes all celestial objects moves in the sky on their own orbits. â??on a fixed course â?? actually mean, like say moon orbits the earth, it suddenly never orbits the sun. Sun orbits center of our galaxy. Every object has their fixed path. Another verses from Al-Qurâ??an : â??It is He Who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon, *all celestial objects move in the sky on their own orbits.â?[Sura-21: Aya-33] *all celestial objects include earth One thing should remember, these verses translated from original Arabic language. It is not easy to explain exactly which Arabic verses mean. As for example: â??"God is the One Who made the sun a shining glory and the moon a light...â? In Arabic the word is not exactly light, it is something reflecting light. Above verses exactly mean sun has its own light so it shining but moon has a reflecting light so it is bright.

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American Kafir RE:Now we are coming to where you are indeed a fanatic - AK 5/17/2004 3:05:42 PM

>>You understand me wrongly. I definetely do not want someone so paranoid as friend. And I am not acting friendly.<< That's good that you are not acting friendly. As a Muslim you are not supposed to be my friend. I'm sorry it has to be this way, but perhaps your backward religious leaders should have invested the time and effort in preparing for jihad with more brave warriors and better weapons before declaring war on the United States of America. It's too late for that now. Muslims believe persecution is worse than death. With that in mind, and in relation to Islamic culture, advocating the extermination of all Muslims is a measure of respect. It would be far worse to just merely persecute them. Hmm. I can't even respect Muslim ideology without sounding insulting.

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