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Subject: Scientific Indications in the Holy Qur'an, Part-II
Achernar    5/15/2004 7:19:30 AM
PHYSICS

Scientific terms: RELATIVITY OF TIME

"They ask you to hasten the punishment. God will not break His promise. A day with your Lord is equivalent to a thousand years in the way you count."[Sura-22: Aya-47]

"He directs the whole affair from heaven to earth. Then it will again ascend to Him on a Day whose length is a thousand years by the way you measure." [Sura-32: Aya-5]

NOTE: These verses are clearly indicating the relativity of time. Before Einsteinâ??s theory of relativity people did not know that time was a relative concept, and that it could change according to the environment.

Scientific terms: GRAVITATION AND MOTION OF THE HEAVENLY BODIES

"(Allah) created the heavens without any pillars that you can see..." [Sura-31: Aya-10]

"Allah is the One Who raised the heavens without any pillars that you can see, then He firmly established Himself on the throne and He subjected the sun and moon . . ."
[Sura-13: Aya-2]

â??He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running (on a fixed course) for an appointed term. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgivingâ? [Sura-39: Aya-5]

"God is the One Who made the sun a shining glory and the moon a light and for her ordained mansions, so that you might know the number of years and the reckoning (of the time). God created this in truth. He explains the signs in detail for people who know."
[Sura-10: Aya-5]

NOTE: First two verses describe about gravitation and next two motions of the heavenly bodies.
 
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American Kafir    RE:Scientific Indications in the Holy Qur'an, Part-II   5/15/2004 1:58:06 PM
>>â??He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running (on a fixed course) for an appointed term. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgivingâ? [Sura-39: Aya-5]<< What is the fixed course of the sun? Why would Allah tell Muhammad that the Sun revolves around the Earth? Is Allah ignorant of basic astronomy?
 
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doggtag    RE:Scientific Indications in the Holy Qur'an, Part-II   5/15/2004 5:58:31 PM
I can take apart the Christian and Catholic versions of the Bible, and I can take apart the Qur'an, and I can take parts from the Buddhist teachings, and the Shintoists, and even of the native tribes of the Americas, and of African beliefs, and I can find very very similar comparisons to the same instances in each of the religions. Somewhere along the way, men became foolish and started to believe that the ways they wanted to interpret the meanings were the only way to believe it, and the brotherhood of men broke down. Perhaps it all relates to the proverbial Tower of Babel (and by similar names). Perhaps someone can explain why so many of the greater religions have so many common and very similar ideas, yet refuse to agree on so many things. Can anyone tell me?
 
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Achernar    RE:American Kafir   5/16/2004 10:05:25 AM
â?Why would Allah tell Muhammad that the Sun revolves around the Earth? Is Allah ignorant of basic astronomy?â?<< Where did you find Allah tell Muhammad that the Sun moves around the Earth??? Al-Qurâ??an never said sun moves around the earth. Read these verses again: â??And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating.â? [Sura-21: Aya-33] â??The sun and the moon run on their fixed courses (exactly) calculated with measured out stages for each (for reckoning, etc.).â? [Sura-55: Aya-5] â??He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running (on a fixed course) for an appointed term. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgivingâ? [Sura-39: Aya-5] Is there anything unclear?
 
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American Kafir    RE:American Kafir   5/16/2004 9:51:19 PM
"Why would Allah tell Muhammad that the Sun revolves around the Earth? Is Allah ignorant of basic astronomy?" >>Where did you find Allah tell Muhammad that the Sun moves around the Earth??? Al-Qurâ??an never said sun moves around the earth. Read these verses again: And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating. [Sura-21: Aya-33] The sun and the moon run on their fixed courses (exactly) calculated with measured out stages for each (for reckoning, etc.)[Sura-55: Aya-5] He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running (on a fixed course) for an appointed term. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving [Sura-39: Aya-5] Is there anything unclear?<< Nothing unclear at all. 21:33 claims that "the night," "the day," the sun, and the moon are each in an orbit floating. It is quite clear here that Allah told Muhammad that not only does the sun and moon orbit the Earth, so does "the day" and "the night." I suppose the day and the night are extra planets? 55:5 and 39:5 reinforce this claim by stating that the sun and moon run on fixed courses, even further illustrating a belief that the Sun orbits the Earth. There are 2 conclusions you can draw from this: 1.) Muhammad was a scientifically ignorant desert barbarian attempting to describe celestial mechanics from an earthbound viewpoint with flowery pronouncements from his imaginary friend Allah, or: 2. Allah was also a scientifically ignorant desert barbarian.
 
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ilpars    RE:American Kafir   5/17/2004 6:44:15 AM
3. AK is an ignorant city barbarian. You may not believe what he is believing, but that does not give you right to insult his belief.
 
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ilpars    Religion is out of concept of StrategyPage   5/17/2004 7:19:11 AM
I believe religion is out of concept of StrategyPage. So I ask religious issues not to be discussed in this forum. I like to read StrategyPage but I am not a person who can watch another to insult my religion. In Turkey insulting a person's religion (any religion) is considered far worse than insulting him and it is also a crime. I wonder if it is also so in USA.
 
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American Kafir    RE:American Kafir   5/17/2004 8:10:03 AM
>>3. AK is an ignorant city barbarian. You may not believe what he is believing, but that does not give you right to insult his belief<< Excuse me? Not only do I have the right to insult whomever I wish, especially scientifically ignorant desert barbarians, if you don't find me insulting, go screw yourself. I'm not certain what Achenar is attempting to prove by quoting verses from the Quran that describe a Sun that orbits the Earth, but I'm not about to accept such a ludicrous and easily disproven theory as "proof" that Allah revealed scientific knowledge to Muhammad. The best scenario one can offer is that Allah lied to Muhammad about it. The most likely scenario is that Muhammad, while inventing his prophetic messages from Allah, never took into consideration the fact that mankind's knowledge would expand to reveal his quaint little barbaric cult's ideas of astronomy to be laughably simplistic and thoroughly incorrect.
 
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ilpars    RE:American Kafir - Difference between a barbarian and a civilized person.   5/17/2004 8:14:36 AM
A civilised person question and argue. A barbarian insults. You are free to chose whoever you are.
 
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American Kafir    RE:Religion is out of concept of StrategyPage   5/17/2004 8:22:21 AM
>>I believe religion is out of concept of StrategyPage. So I ask religious issues not to be discussed in this forum. I like to read StrategyPage but I am not a person who can watch another to insult my religion.<< Well, don't blow yourself up over it. >>In Turkey insulting a person's religion (any religion) is considered far worse than insulting him and it is also a crime. I wonder if it is also so in USA << No, it is not. In America we've got the freedom of speech to negatively describe the theosophical ramblings of scientifically ignorant desert barbarians with impunity and without fear of fascistic legal repercussions. Perhaps Turkey will embrace modern democratic reforms before Iraq does?
 
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American Kafir    RE:American Kafir - Difference between a barbarian and a civilized person.   5/17/2004 8:40:17 AM
>>A civilised person question and argue. A barbarian insults. You are free to chose whoever you are<< Sorry. I fully believe it is in a person's best interests to be informed of their own stupidity when they demonstrate a level of stupidity that renders them ignorant of their own stupidity. I'm not being insulting when I'm stating a fact. It is stupid to believe that the Sun orbits the Earth. You may support Achenar's right to believe that the Sun orbits the Earth, irregardless of the fact that that is a stupid belief held by stupid people. I don't have a problem with that. Stupid people need love too. But, the subject at hand, that Allah revealed this stupid belief to Muhammad as an indisputable divine truth, goes much further. Now you're asking me to accept a stupid belief because that belief came from Allah. To that I can only say that Allah is pretty stupid to believe that. Why would Allah reveal himself to be a blithering idiot? Why is it "civilized" to ignore the fact that a barbaric religious belief is stupid if someone says that that barbaric religious belief comes from false information provided by Allah, who by providing said false information can only be said to be either lying or stupid himself? Which is it? Is Allah stupid or a liar?
 
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SGTObvious    The Quran is wrong again, Achernar   5/17/2004 8:59:23 AM
"God is the One Who made the sun a shining glory and the moon a light... The moon is not a light. It merely reflects sunlight. We've proved it. We've even been there. Achernar, since The Quran has clearly lied to you, I suppose its time to take up something else. Have you considered Buddism?
 
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SGTObvious    Insulting religions, Ilpars   5/17/2004 9:01:03 AM
"In Turkey insulting a person's religion (any religion) is considered far worse than insulting him and it is also a crime. I wonder if it is also so in USA " Ilpars, it is not a crime here. It is an art.
 
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ilpars    RE:Insulting religions, - AK   5/17/2004 9:15:42 AM
It is a crime in UK to insult someone because of his religion and insulting his religion. I believe you do not consider UK as facist. And I think, it is also crime in several states of USA under the "Hate Laws". I read some articles about if "Hate Laws" is limiting free speech in US websites.
 
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ilpars    Religious Discrimination - AK   5/17/2004 9:30:45 AM
I believe religious books are not science books. I think this whole topic is unproductive. But IMO; when these kind of topics come to forum everyone has a right to question the wisdom of it. But I do not like insults especially against someone's religious beliefs. There are many things that I find inlogical about other religions (naturally), but I have respect enough not to discuss them in an insulting way. If I wonder about something from another religion, I ask it with respect. I will not reach prejudged assumptions. Am I asking too much if I want see the same from others? Civilised life depends on respect which we show others that does not share a common race, religion, belief, culture with us. If someone do not act according to this than it is a dicrimination. That is why I am against what you have said AK. You could say what you wanted to say with respect. But you chose the way of the insult. Which I find as a religious discrimination and barbaric.
 
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Achernar    RE:Scientific Indications in the Holy Qur'an, Part-II   5/17/2004 9:38:50 AM
Ilpars: Every body has a level. I know this cannibal and his label very well. Some days back he said â??Allah told Mohammed(s) to build a death camp on earth.â? In reply a quote from Al-Qurâ??an. Poster name â??Hammurabiâ?. Quote was Surah 76:4 - Surely We have prepared for the unbelievers chains and shackles and a burning fire.â? We know a fraction what is going on in US built death camp in â??Abu Ghraibâ?, Iraq. Actually they are used to doing this, which reflect their posts. I never expect much from this cannibal.
 
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